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YES! (i would use it)

NO! (i would not use it, and i think it is pointless/unethical/gross etc.)

yes, but i would dissable it if it was an init option (all yes voters are assumed to be for an init option, only vote here if you think it should be included but you would not use it)

[Askot Bokbondeler]

infinite complexity is the main feature of DF, it's what draw me to it. if we're trying to get a stable fanbase and widen our target audience, why don't we ditch half of df's boring features and complexity, make it an mmo, give it pretty graphics, remove dwarves, add 26 races of elves, etc...
 and the sims were an example to disprove mnjiman's post, you don't have to be very smart to get that.

[mnjiman]

In Sims they just GO to the wash room, they dont actually have to deal with the actual shit is which im referring too.

[Josephus]

infinite complexity is the main feature of DF, it's what draw me to it. if we're trying to get a stable fanbase and widen our target audience, why don't we ditch half of df's boring features and complexity, make it an mmo, give it pretty graphics, remove dwarves, add 26 races of elves, etc...
 and the sims were an example to disprove mnjiman's post, you don't have to be very smart to get that.

Fortress Online. June 2011.

[Teiwaz]

Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy simulator. Dangerous things living in the sewers are a key fantasy trope.

Dwarf Fortress is a medieval industry simulator. Biological waste was a critical part of industry - from fertilizer, to fuel, to the production of leather, cloth, a building material, for cleaning, and for medicine, amongst other uses.

As for you prudish types, I have some required reading for you. Now stop worrying about the possibility of someone else maybe having some fun with the game in a way you find so shockingly inappropriate that it apparently gives you the right to impose your hang-ups on others.

[Nikov]

In Sims they just GO to the wash room, they dont actually have to deal with the actual shit is which im referring too.

Unless you sadisticly block the door to the toilet with an end table, in which case they wet themselves publicly. This is an excellent means of Sim torture.

Also haven't you seen the graphic for a clogged toilet? It looks like Chipolet-Away needs to come in industrial strength.

[DalGren]

Now stop worrying about the possibility of someone else maybe having some fun with the game in a way you find so shockingly inappropriate that it apparently gives you the right to impose your hang-ups on others.

Change "inappropriate" to "appropriate" and you get the other end of the discussion
I am seeing that the pro-feces crowd seems to be more imposing ("<con>ew gross <pro>social taboos! you foo!") than the against-feces crowd, I think the "against" side is mostly being defensive.
Plus, being prudish is not that bad anyway. Feces have earned that bad reputation with its bad smells, disease spread...a turd is nothing pretty to look at, to touch, to smell...and has no other use aside from being waste material or fertilizer if you want to really find an use for it. In fact it's called bodily waste for something.
The normal thing for an average non-farmer citizen is not wanting it anywhere out of the toilet. Prove me wrong.

As for in-game I already decided my views in the newer thread so if you start flaming without reading that...your fault.

[forsaken1111]

As for in-game I already decided my views in the newer thread so if you start flaming without reading that...your fault.

While feces is often only used for fertilizer, Urine is extremely useful for many different things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine

[DalGren]

As for in-game I already decided my views in the newer thread so if you start flaming without reading that...your fault.

While feces is often only used for fertilizer, Urine is extremely useful for many different things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine

"My views" mostly revolve around the usage of water, making water a powerful entity in-game. If water gets polluted, you need fresh water, so sites with access to clean water are much more valuable and probably a common warzone because of water.
Although the idea is neat, it would make the game insanely hard(er) though, so I'd prefer waste to be optional by all means. (plus it would limit the entire game to a very limited number of sites. What's the use of making a full world if you can only use 1/2 site types?)

EDIT: Whoops skipped a whole paragraph, don't ask:
About the usage of urine, yeah, I am aware of its usage, but since the emphasis is on the solid side of waste, I never really thought about it. Personally I think it's got more potential uses and it's nowhere as gross.
I have actually used medicines based on urea. Possibly many here have without knowing.
But about solid waste I still can't really see its real use other than leaving your fort like an early PS3 game.
Actually if all body waste in DF was going to be urine (quite fit for them drunken dorfs) I'd totally let go of the prudish POV. It's considerably less un-epic.

[EyeOfNundinate]

infinite complexity is the main feature of DF, it's what draw me to it. if we're trying to get a stable fanbase and widen our target audience, why don't we ditch half of df's boring features and complexity, make it an mmo, give it pretty graphics, remove dwarves, add 26 races of elves, etc...
 and the sims were an example to disprove mnjiman's post, you don't have to be very smart to get that.

We already have a stable fanbase, and it is quite large, shame if the bullshit threshold is passed.

[Rotten]

"My views" mostly revolve around the usage of water,
Your views about the importance of waste don't negate it's other uses
making water a powerful entity in-game. If water gets polluted, you need fresh water, so sites with access to clean water are much more valuable and probably a common warzone because of water.
This logic would work if there were any sites without water. Caverns, wonderful things.
Although the idea is neat, it would make the game insanely hard(er) though,
That's bad?
so I'd prefer waste to be optional by all means.
The general consensus is on an Init option
(plus it would limit the entire game to a very limited number of sites. What's the use of making a full world if you can only use 1/2 site types?)
How many sites in the world do you end up using anyways? And how would it limit them? You still have caverns, or take the happiness hit and have your dwarves use bushes.

EDIT: Whoops skipped a whole paragraph, don't ask:
About the usage of urine, yeah, I am aware of its usage, but since the emphasis is on the solid side of waste,
No, it isn't
I never really thought about it. Personally I think it's got more potential uses and it's nowhere as gross.
I have actually used medicines based on urea. Possibly many here have without knowing.
This is a possible use, yeah
But about solid waste I still can't really see its real use other than leaving your fort like an early PS3 game.
What game? It would be used as fertilizer
Actually if all body waste in DF was going to be urine (quite fit for them drunken dorfs) I'd totally let go of the prudish POV. It's considerably less un-epic.
I think most people agree on a generalized 'filth' tile that could serve as both feces and urine (as feces is mostly only useful for fertilizer, which urine can be used for as well, besides tanning, gunpowder, etc.)

[DalGren]

Your views about the importance of waste don't negate it's other uses
That's not as much as "importance", since for now it's in "request" state. There's no given use to it yet.

This logic would work if there were any sites without water. Caverns, wonderful things.
Take the settlement in account, you need to get to fresh water too quickly or the overworld water might run out before you have time to build the basics. However, it implies water to be used to clean up and have more general uses as currently, however there are many talks about pollution linked to this, so that's why I went there.

That's bad?
Yes and no. Remember we rely on AIs doing stuff, and the extra sieging, poor hygiene conditions, etc, will make them veeery sad. Not to mention you might need to expend the early game setting up the sewage system, and if your water-rich system attracts sieges, they will strike very hard, making dorfs sad people :_(

The general consensus is on an Init option
Yes, that was redundant, my bad

How many sites in the world do you end up using anyways? And how would it limit them? You still have caverns, or take the happiness hit and have your dwarves use bushes.
Take another players in account too. I like to embark in broadleaf forests with aquifers so I am cool, but there are others who like the adventure and settle in deserts and wastelands. And I kind of not rely in the ability of the average Urist to keep things tidy, so the happiness hit might be too much to manage

About the usage of urine, yeah, I am aware of its usage, but since the emphasis is on the solid side of waste,
No, it isn't
Scroll up, the word "feces" is still popping out there. I am on the side of "waste" if you read the other thread!

This is a possible use, yeah
Indeed, it's got actual in-game usage potential. Also might have something to do with medicine as in urine samples to quickly detect "dormant" syndromes or such...I guess

What game? It would be used as fertilizer
There's already potash in-game, sure it can be replaced but it doesn't add anything new on itself.
And the game is mostly the early titles that had a very strong filter that tended to make some scenes brownish. It was used more masterfully in later games, achieving the realistic filtering without turning colors into brown too much.
It's a fancy way to imply that knowing how dwarves work right now, you'll see a lot of "brown" tiles. Tarn needs to teach them hygiene

I think most people agree on a generalized 'filth' tile that could serve as both feces and urine (as feces is mostly only useful for fertilizer, which urine can be used for as well, besides tanning, gunpowder, etc.)
As said feces aren't really of more use than being a bother, putting personal feelings aside, since we already got a reliable source of fertilization. Unless of course it's decided to remove potash in favor of that, as said above.

Considering how difficult it is to have real people wash their hands after doing their business, I can't even begin to imagine how difficult dwarves in DF might be!
Here's an idea, make "cleaning" a social entity trait. So we can have races that just don't care and anothers that nobody would tell they have an anus (perhaps those stuck-up treehuggers might have [ETHIC:FILTH:UNTHINKABLE] or PUNISH_CAPITAL xD).

[Askot Bokbondeler]

sewers are pretty awesome, but you don't really need them :\ just empty your chamber pot on a pit at a safe distance from your fort. you definitely don't need a sewer for your 7 starting dwarves

in my opinion, more important than dwarven filth, are animal droppings. they'd provide a good reason to keep your pet cows away from your legendary dining room

[forsaken1111]

sewers are pretty awesome, but you don't really need them :\ just empty your chamber pot on a pit at a safe distance from your fort. you definitely don't need a sewer for your 7 starting dwarves

in my opinion, more important than dwarven filth, are animal droppings. they'd provide a good reason to keep your pet cows away from your legendary dining room

Good point. I am pretty compulsive about building a stable/pen/kennel for whatever animals I am breeding. I will generally have dogs tied up in small stalls and puppies in cages so they don't run around.

Why?

There is no real reason, it just feels wrong to have a horse walking slowly across the tables in the dining room while people are eating, a cow following a militiaman on patrol, and a puppie sitting in the barracks right next to the archery targets.

[arghy]

dear god look at that poll! neck and neck! one of these days my dream of roman style plumbing being mandatory will be fulfilled!

[forsaken1111]

dear god look at that poll! neck and neck! one of these days my dream of roman style plumbing being mandatory will be fulfilled!

The yes votes are a bit ahead actually. You have to count the 'yes but I would not use it' as well.