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[Retales]

This is just an idea I got some time back. There could be a way for the dwarves to "scan" a part of the mountain. For example, they would have to build a sonar station (would require some slightly more exotic components).

When the station is used, it would reveal the surrounding area. Higher skill would increase the range of the "scanned" area, and also be more accurate on what the surroundings are. Low skill shows the tiles as either 'rock' or 'ore', while higher skills could show them as for example 'obsidian' 'marble' 'copper' etc.

This technology wouldn't be available in the beginning (due to the components), and performing these scans would take some time so you can't just scan every corner of your fort.

Too high-tech for dwarves?

[Core Xii]

You can't make a radar without electricity.

[Haedrian]

. . .

I doubt this is possible TODAY...

[Retales]

A little imagination, please. If you hit a hollow object, it makes a different sound that a solid one. Different materials with different resonances and whatnot

[Haedrian]

quote:Originally posted by Retales:
<STRONG>A little imagination, please. If you hit a hollow object, it makes a different sound that a solid one. Different materials with different resonances and whatnot</STRONG>

And you think that a sound could go through a few meters of rock, reflect off the ore, pass through a few more meters of rock, where it can be interpreted by a computer (??)?

Would need a MASSIVE dish to do that

ADDED: How sonar works:

You fire a sound into water. The first object which can reflect sound will reflect sound back, where it is collected by the receiver.

Then in simple terms (I'm ignoring a lot of factors). Since Speed = Distance / Time . And speed = Frequence * Wavelength.... you can get a good impression of how much distance there is between the ship and the reflecting object.

(thank you a-level physics..)

[ August 05, 2007: Message edited by: Haedrian ]

[Retales]

Oh sorry. I just never though Dwarf Fortress to be a reality simulator. I guess I should've gone to the local dwarf fortress and ask them if it's possible   :roll:

[Haedrian]

Then make it work as a magic thing, and place it under magic.

This game IS realistic, look at steel for example...

[Retales]

:roll:

[Axehilt_VuP]

'Realistic' argument aside, sonar/radar doesn't fit the theme of Dwarf Fortress at all.

A 'themed' version of radar might work; Legendary Miners could gain the ability to survey sections of cave in order to give vague suggestions as to where certain ore might be found.  Or you could go the more mystical/magical route and have mystics or seerdwarves who perform crazy rituals to locate ore veins.

But it might be best simply to let blind exploration continue to be a part of the game - particularly if the natural caverns/denizens suggestion ends up happening and there are more interesting things to find in the mountain than the 3 landmarks (river, chasm, magma) and a bunch of ore.

[Gauteamus]

Ore soundings is clearly a skill only availible to blind Legendary Miners!
I can see them down there in the pitch black, with their hammers, picks and stetoscopes. Of course, harsh repercussions would echo through society against any leader deliberately blinding a legendary miner.

[RP]

Bib: Sweet, the Baron will be pleased--there's a silver reading just south of us. Ah, and a bunch of opal returns. More work for Libash.
Lokum: Yeah, the old git's been complaining about having to clean fish so much my ears are startin' to hurt...
(minutes later)
Bib: Hmm, getting a peculiar return from just in front of us.
Lokum: Oh?
Bib: Yeah, vertical formation... it's like a hole of some kind, sinks so far I can't see the end of it on the Rock-o-scope. Weird echoes... it's as if... no, wait, there ARE things moving down there...
Lokum: You're nuts. I told you we shouldn't have bought that junk from those idiot elves. It's probably just magma. (raises pick and begins hacking away)

[Nukeitall]

Alternatively, it could be magically based. Magic is upcoming (relatively) and this "could" be possible, though not in the form you suggest.

[KrunkSplein]

quote:Originally posted by Retales:
<STRONG> :roll:</STRONG>

Yes, because that is a fantastic way to be taken seriously.  Sarcasm will get you absolutely everywhere when dealing with a tight-knit community.

DF is a fantasy game, this is true.  But the vast majority of the game mechanics are sourced from reality.  As Haedrian mentioned, the process for making Steel in DF is as close to reality as you're going to get in a game.  The same holds true for glass making, as well as the production of potash and pearlash.  Naturally, certain liberties are taken in the name of both efficiency and fun, but it's all still based in reality.

The procedure you suggest MAY be feasible with CURRENT technology, but the level of sophistication needed to do that mechanically is enormous, far beyond the scope of the dwarves.  Once Magic is in, maybe there could be a way to divine the location of specific veins, but who can say if ore veins will even be handled the same way in the next version?

For now, if you absolutely have to know where that Hematite is, just cheat.  Reveal.exe will take care of you.

[Gauteamus]

Magic in most games/settings is bugging me.

Suppose that One wants some sort of ore-divination in Ones game.
Obviously this is possible with modern-day measure-, instrumentation- and computer technology, but how would a quasimedieval dwarven society go around something like this?
... Magic!

Problem is magic can represent anything; from the alien technologies and skills of a civilization turning another way than ours at certain points in the history of natural philosophy, maybe with a more or less outspoken mystic touch (see: the different cultic orders of the Dune series; Bene Gesserit, human mentat computers) In a DF geomancer setting this may be represented by a skilled miner running around with stetoscope, lunar tables and maybe an alrune or some garlic. IMHO something like this can be an interesting implementation of magic.
Another view of magic is that it can do almost anything anywhere (or at most bound by some very obscure limits), without explanation needed of any kind (other than that it is Magic). For reference, read the (sort of exciting, but stretched to fit way too many volumes) Wheel of Time series.

Sorry about this rather off-topic post.
I do not mean to bash anyone, and I will try to stop ranting about magic, at least in this topic.

[Poil]

I wouldn't mind having magic in provided you weren't forced to have it every time. Magic should bring a lot of benefits and drawbacks, a bit like magma smelting instead of regular one only with more fireimps and magma men.

Imagine conjuring up a powerful demon to chain (with spells not actual chains) in the main hallway for defense only to have a tantrumming dwarf smash some magical object crucial in binding the demon to its place. Restore, restart or quit? Can't stop derailing.

quote:Originally posted by KrunkSplein:
<STRONG>
Yes, because that is a fantastic way to be taken seriously.  Sarcasm will get you absolutely everywhere when dealing with a tight-knit community.

DF is a fantasy game, this is true.  But the vast majority of the game mechanics are sourced from reality.  As Haedrian mentioned, the process for making Steel in DF is as close to reality as you're going to get in a game.  The same holds true for glass making, as well as the production of potash and pearlash.  Naturally, certain liberties are taken in the name of both efficiency and fun, but it's all still based in reality.

The procedure you suggest MAY be feasible with CURRENT technology, but the level of sophistication needed to do that mechanically is enormous, far beyond the scope of the dwarves.  Once Magic is in, maybe there could be a way to divine the location of specific veins, but who can say if ore veins will even be handled the same way in the next version?

For now, if you absolutely have to know where that Hematite is, just cheat.  Reveal.exe will take care of you.</STRONG>

I have to say I agree.

Any form of radar or sonar (except maybe for dolphins and whales) doesn't fit into DF at all.