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[Hawkfrost]

Lance is to hit vitals, Large sword for huge swaths of damage, Mace for spins of damage, Katana for between.

If by spins of damage you mean the spinning attack, I can tell you that's pretty much the worst attack on the hammer if you want to actually deal damage. The main means of damage with a hammer is the superpound or the golfswing combo, and if you are good at aiming the uppercut isn't bad for dealing a hit quickly and then taking off.


Sword and Shield is all about mobility, aggressive attacking, and bringing the right elemental weapon for the job, since the raw on swords is very poor. You need to be dealing many more hits in proportion to your harder hitting allies so you should ideally always be on the offense. Using a status weapon is also really good for this because of the way ailments stack on monsters which means faster hitting weapons are many times better than slow heavy ones for inflicting them.

[Zangi]

^ What Hawkfrost says is truth, it applies to older versions of MH also.

Hammer Time >.>   Though, I'm a cruddy face poker hiding behind a large object at heart.

[Aoi]

Admittedly, the hammer spin does do a decent amount of damage if you manage to land every single hit, and you don't have your face slammed into the ground for the eon it takes to finish.

[Baneling]

Anyone that says Lance is a defensive weapon should be slapped.

Here's a good thing to take in.

Most of what the game will tell you is a lie.

It says resistances are helpful. That's a lie.

It says lance is defensive with the big shield and the slow moving. Nope! I'll explain this in a moment.

It completely fails to tell you that the SnS is, for everything except status(specifically para unless you have a semi-decent team), absolutely worthless and in fact implies that it is a decent choice of weapon. This is wrong.

Also, it completely lies about the damage numbers. The average damage you'll be dealing with any non-longsword or greatsword weapon before high rank is between 5 and 50. Hammer, SnS and switchaxe tend towards the lower ranges of this, which stays true throughout the game.

Now, to explain lance. Lance has, as far as I recall, the longest and easiest-to-exploit set of frames of invincibility while dodging out of any weapon in the game. If you time it correctly you can dodge through all but one attack and that's Ceadeus' water beam thing because it's like 5 metres wide. Also, the dodge(a quick hop) allows you to skip the end of the combo animation to attack much faster. Very good DPS.

If you're trying to deal damage with a hammer, I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong. The hammer isn't a damage-dealer, it's a support weapon. You're aiming to get as many KOs as you possibly can with that thing.

Also, Neonivek, the Long Sword(katana-y type weapon, though one is a sickle and another is more like a spear) is far and away the most damaging weapon in the game with Lance bringing up second followed closely by Great Sword. The only thing it's in between is a monster's flesh

[Neonivek]

Admittedly, the hammer spin does do a decent amount of damage if you manage to land every single hit, and you don't have your face slammed into the ground for the eon it takes to finish.

Well you never complete the spin combo. You have to get the hammer swing in it too (Which if I remember correctly has a sweet spot in the spins). Though my bro can definately get the most out of the spin.

Mind you the Hammer he uses can stun as well.

Anyone that says Lance is a defensive weapon should be slapped

Actually... Given that defensive grenades are more powerful then offensive grenades I think we have to understand that by "Lances are defensive weapons" they mean that Lances are based around always having a defense. Which they need because they have to strand right up to the creatures. I can think of a few creatures where the Lance is almost required if you are doing it solo.

Mind you they have been heavily nerfed (though that isn't accurate it is more that creatures have had their heads buffed)

It completely fails to tell you that the SnS is, for everything except status(specifically para unless you have a semi-decent team), absolutely worthless and in fact implies that it is a decent choice of weapon. This is wrong.

Ohh I know. I've watched my bro long enough to see battles where if you don't deal enough damage fast enough... You will outright fail. As well as some where you will NOT get a lot of time to actually hit a creature.

[Baneling]

No, the game practically tells you that lance is for turtling with the block advance and crap. Turtling is the least effective method of using the lance by far since it means you're not attacking, you're turtling.

Also, FYI, if you think the GS or whatever is too slow, sheathe it. Good GS players tend to have the thing on their back most of the time so they can run in and position for a level 3 draw charge.

The GS's good point is the charge attacks. Position yourself right and get a level 3 off and you'll deal the most possible damage. Crit Draw is a vital skill because it means that level 3 draw charge is suddenly doing 1.5x damage or whatever the modifier for crits is.

[Neonivek]

The problem with the Great Sword is all the bad Great Sword players who hit you.

[Girlinhat]

Just gonna point out here that the lance is great for Royal Ludroth.  I managed to take him down very quickly using the charge move (the + button).  If you can attack from the side, between the front and back legs, then you get in this "pocket" where you don't pass through or aside.  You can keep up a lance charge with successful hits until your weapon loses sharpness!

SnS is a very underrated weapon.  Its power is in its mobility, without a question.  In particular, it lets you move quickly, and it lets you attack quickly.  Most of the time you can walk away from danger, only rolling when you need to evade a barroth charge or something.  And when it's just the perfect moment for you not to dodge, you can defend.  Not to mention that defending protects against roars and gobul's flash attack.  So while everyone is holding their ears, you can duck briefly behind your shield and then circle around and start slashing at the tail.

As said before, SnS is also great for inflicting a status, as it attacks quickly and piles up nicely.  But it's also good for dealing consistent damage.  Because it is quick, you can easily get in a few attacks while the lances and great swords are still getting into position.  For certain monsters like barioth and rathian, it can mean a lot if you're getting in attacks while your allies are still trying to sheath their weapons and get closer.

Perhaps most importantly though, it's easy.  If you've played the game, you're good with SnS.  If you work at it you can become good at lance or hammer.  If you work at it, you can become great with SnS.  It has a much softer learning curve, and for the same time investment you can get more skilled with the little blade than others who are using 'better' weapons.  Combine that with a status blade, like poison, sleep, or paralysis, or a straight up damage blade like dragon element, and you do quite a bit of damage.

[Knirisk]

Just gonna point out here that the lance is great for Royal Ludroth.  I managed to take him down very quickly using the charge move (the + button).  If you can attack from the side, between the front and back legs, then you get in this "pocket" where you don't pass through or aside.  You can keep up a lance charge with successful hits until your weapon loses sharpness!

I want to point out that the lance is amazing for all underwater creatures. It's safe and effective underwater. Because the lance isn't very mobile anyway, it isn't affected very much by being underwater. Although the SnS is one of my favorite weapons, I actually stop using it underwater because it loses its mobility.

[penguinofhonor]

I do need to use + button attacks more. The SnS just sorta has a normal slash though. All the other weapons' + abilities seem sorta interesting.

[Baneling]

Lance charge is, I believe, the weakest attack lance has.

SnS's + attack is part of the optimal combo.

Lance with dash juice allows you to hop around quite quickly.

SnS underwater is a terrible idea, as bad as using Tenebra D.

SnS isn't an underrated weapon, it's just that terrible. You can't "do quite a bit of damage" with the thing unless you're bringing high rank weapons to low rank fights because it just doesn't hit hard enough.

Alatreon Star, the best damage SnS in the game, has a hardest hit of 75(using aptonoth as a test dummy). Meanwhile, the hammer equivalent, Devil's Crush (P) hits hardest over 200 with superpound which you'll be spending a lot more time using. You have to hit 7 or 8 times to keep up with a hammer's single attack.

Meanwhile the Anguish(P), the GS equivalent, hits 593 with a draw charge and Crit Draw, which is basically a requirement of using a GS properly. That means you have to hit more than 10 times with the Alatreon Star to deal the same damage as a single attack from the Devil's Crush(P). If I recall correctly, an optimal SnS combo hits 7 times.

Seeing where I'm getting this idea of SnS being terrible from yet?

[userpay]

Lance charge is, I believe, the weakest attack lance has.

SnS's + attack is part of the optimal combo.

Lance with dash juice allows you to hop around quite quickly.

SnS underwater is a terrible idea, as bad as using Tenebra D.

SnS isn't an underrated weapon, it's just that terrible. You can't "do quite a bit of damage" with the thing unless you're bringing high rank weapons to low rank fights because it just doesn't hit hard enough.

Alatreon Star, the best damage SnS in the game, has a hardest hit of 75(using aptonoth as a test dummy). Meanwhile, the hammer equivalent, Devil's Crush (P) hits hardest over 200 with superpound which you'll be spending a lot more time using. You have to hit 7 or 8 times to keep up with a hammer's single attack.

Meanwhile the Anguish(P), the GS equivalent, hits 593 with a draw charge and Crit Draw, which is basically a requirement of using a GS properly. That means you have to hit more than 10 times with the Alatreon Star to deal the same damage as a single attack from the Devil's Crush(P). If I recall correctly, an optimal SnS combo hits 7 times.

Seeing where I'm getting this idea of SnS being terrible from yet?

Yet with the speed and mobility you have from the SnS you do get more attacks in. Also you can charge in when others can't due to said mobility and thus have more opportunities for attacks.

[Baneling]

You'd need to get more attacks in than is possible to deal more damage than an equally skilled user of literally any other weapon.

[DeKaFu]

Not to mention that SnS have higher elemental values and they're applied to each hit. You're going to be racking up way more extra elemental damage with those 7 quick hits than that one big one.

[Knirisk]

Anyway, time to bring calculations into the argument. There are damage formulas on GameFAQs for this, actually. Although the raw power differs greatly, the class of the weapon reduces its power accordingly. Sword and Shield is reduced by a factor of 1.4 while the Greatsword is reduced by a factor of 4.8.

Now, I have a hypothetical situation below. The weapons are high rank, although the monster is low rank (The power differentials shouldn't matter too much unless you're making an argument that the SnS is worthless based on its non-elemental beginner weapons).
A good GS user should have Critical Draw. Likewise, a good SnS user should have a decent elemental against that monster.

Code: [Select]

Monster: paralyzed low-rank Barioth
Hitzone: Head
GS: Diablos Hornsword
SnS: Blazing Falchion

Barioth weakness on head 55%. Elemental weakness 35%.

Equation: [Attack power x type x sharpness x [crit draw] x Hitzone] / Class
Crit. Draw is only available for GS.

Elemental damage: [Element x sharpness x hitzone] / 10
Only available for SnS. GS has such poor elemental damage, which is unaffected by Crit. Draw,
that it's better to have a higher raw damage.

Greatsword:
1008 x 1.10 x 1.2 x 1.5 x .55 x 1.05 / 4.8 = 240.12 - Crit. Draw Lvl 3 Charge

Sword and Shield:
238 x .16 x 1.2 x .55 x 1.06 / 1.4 = 19.03 - Jumping Slash
440 x 1.0625 x .35 / 10 = 16.3625
238 x .13 x 1.2 x .55 x 1.06 / 1.4 = 15.46 - Regular combo 1
440 x 1.0625 x .35 / 10 = 16.3625
238 x .11 x 1.2 x .55 x 1.06 / 1.4 = 13.08 - Regular combo 2
440 x 1.0625 x .35 / 10 = 16.3625
238 x .08 x 1.2 x .55 / 1.4 = 8.98  - SnS combo 1
No elemental damage (shield)
238 x .12 x 1.2 x .55 x 1.06 / 1.4 = 14.27  - SnS combo 2
440 x 1.0625 x .35 / 10 = 16.3625
238 x .24 x 1.2 x .55 x 1.06 / 1.4 = 28.54  - Revolving slice
440 x 1.0625 x .35 / 10 = 16.3625

=181.17

Citations:
Damage Formula: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/943655-monster-hunter-tri/faqs/59207
Hitbox Areas/Elemental Weaknesses: http://monsterhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Barioth#Analysis
Sword and Shield stats: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/943655-monster-hunter-tri/faqs/59581
Greatsword stats: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/943655-monster-hunter-tri/faqs/59580
Now, I would actually say this is biased in favor of the Greatsword, because the monster won't always be paralyzed. A 5-hit or 6-hit SnS combo is far quicker and easier to land than a lvl 3 charged Critical Draw. You really need to practice hitting that charged attack before you'll make a difference.

Also, there's a random 1.06 factor in the SnS calculations and a 1.05 factor in the GS calculations. For the SnS, it's a general 1.06 multiplier to all cutting damage done from the sword. For the GS, it's a really small sweet spot in the middle of the blade. Now, this sweet spot is hard to get, especially on a non-paralyzed monster. You really HAVE to make those hits count with the GS, whereas with the SnS, it's not so difficult. In singleplayer, at the least, you'll know that the monster is probably going to aim at you, but in multiplayer, it's difficult to predict where he will turn.

That is, if you are trying to land a lvl 3 charge. Otherwise, the damage is actually LESS than a full combo of the SnS (replace the 1.10 multiplier in the GS calculations with a .80 multiplier for a lvl 2 charge).

You could probably try some other calculations with the damage formula, too, but this is a decent theoretical example. Although, I admit, not many SnS users use the revolving slice at the end of their combo, even if they really should.