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[Jackrabbit]

Oh yeah, that was the episode I saw. I actually didn't see all of it. Just up to and a bit past the part where two Aussies acted like pricks and the American punched one of their noses in.

Ah well, back to Kokoda for me.

[The Architect]

Alright, my family is actually involved in this production. I feel like I'm in the perfect position to tell you what it's all about (as I did once already in the first thread).

First: It's the story of a few American soldiers as told in their books. Basilone is the only soldier whose story is not taken directly from memoirs.
Second: It's not even about all of the Americans in the Pacific. They focused on the most well-documented group of soldiers, the First Marine Division. Band of Brothers was about one group of soldiers as well. It never ceases to amaze me how pissy people get when they don't realize that you need to focus on specific soldiers in a dramatic movie, and that you couldn't make a movie about all of the groups involved in a conflict even if you wanted to.

Third: It's an anti-war movie. This upsets many of those involved with its making, and many fans. However, as a project with multiple contributors, it still has much to offer. Notably it is taken almost completely from relevant accounts of the men featured in the firm.

Fourth: Stop bitching about some specific battle or group of veterans not being in the movie. This movie covers 5 separate engagements, and it does a piss-poor job of even doing that because they bit off more than they could chew, and a few key members of the development crippled it (much like Hitler's commands during the Battle of Britain).

Fifth: I'm very glad to see no one bitching about the portrayal of the Japanese soldiers, the gore, or the language. They did a lot of stupid Hollywood things to the American soldiers, like having them be heartless assholes who shot livestock from traincars. Someone didn't even bother with the fact that even having live ammunition would have brought about a dishonorable discharge when they wanted to throw in their bit of Hollywoodism. The brutality of the Japanese was also dramatically downplayed (yes, the amount shown is actually a huge downplay from the reality). The language is also extremely clean compared to the statements given by the men who fought. All of these things were done to increase their potential market, at the expense of truth. Sometimes this was good (in the case of language); sometimes it was shameful (in the case of the portrayal of the American solders' attitudes and sometimes even actions).

They missed a lot as well. Best to read the books it's based off of if you are really interested in the men's stories. Otherwise, take it as something along the lines of "historical fiction". It uses real characters and some of their real actions and words, but it's not what reallly happened.

The Pacific is good, but I think band of Brothers was better.

You're damn straight. As one of the few hundred people who's seen this whole thing (that fact always tickles me) I can tell you that the last few episodes are of this are the best, but it doesn't quite measure up to Band of Brothers. Anyone watching will be sure to enjoy the character Eugene Sledge the best, as he is the only major character who is spot-on with the man himself.

[Char13magne]

They missed a lot as well. Best to read the books it's based off of if you are really interested in the men's stories. Otherwise, take it as something along the lines of "historical fiction". It uses real characters and some of their real actions and words, but it's not what reallly happened.

I always take these kinds of things with a grain of salt anyway, so, no problems.

                     Cheers!

[fenrif]

The main problem I'm having with this is STILL the characters. Yeah band of brothers was about one group of soldiers, but you mostly followed that group throughout. You saw them before they went in, during, and then they were there at the end.

In this you see a bunch of guys for the first 20 mins of the first episode, then after that they're all in uniform and covered in dirt. Yeah this is realistic, but makes it a huge pain to identify with any of the characters, because they all look the same. Spending more time with them before they got in the thick of it would've helped.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then just when you're getting used to who everyone is, people start dissapearing, and a whole new crew of people are suddenly the focus. Again, realistic it may be, but it's pretty bloody confusing. The last episode I saw someone died, and the show was trying to make us feel sad about it. All the characters were upset. The Gunny character broke down. And noone in the room watching had any idea who the hell just died. I thought it was the captain, who then died later on. >_<

It does seem to be picking up though now. The last episode was much better than the ones before. Once sledgehammer turns up it starts getting some focus back. Hopefully the last few episodes will bring it home.

[Aqizzar]

In this you see a bunch of guys for the first 20 mins of the first episode, then after that they're all in uniform and covered in dirt. Yeah this is realistic, but makes it a huge pain to identify with any of the characters, because they all look the same. Spending more time with them before they got in the thick of it would've helped.

See, I had this same problem with Band of Brothers, and The Pacific does the same thing for me.  Band of Brothers had like fifty principle characters, and aside from Nixon, Winters, and Spears, I lost track of everybody.  I think it's more about your own ability to recognize faces, which I'm terrible with.

[Cthulhu]

This is a problem I also have.  Band of Brothers, most action movies, anything with a large number of caucasian male characters I quickly lose track of who is who.

[Jackrabbit]

I've always felt that the importance lies in keeping a tally of how many Easy Company members get shot in the arse.

[The Architect]

According to the head writer, the story was edited to heck and back (resulting in the clusterf*ck of unrecognizable, uncharacterized people at times). Just remember that anyone whose name is said more than once is someone to try to remember. I would say less than 15 people are mentioned by name throughout the series.

Even people who have met the actors have to watch episodes more than once to keep track of what is going on. Just bear this in mind: 1 and 2 are the hardest to follow. 8 can be difficult.

Robert Lecky: "Lucky"
Helmet for My Pillow

Eugene Sledge: "Sledgehammer"
With the Old Breed
(Didn't really know Lecky other than by name, but Lecky is shown giving him his nickname. Hollywood again.)

Sidney Phillips
You'll be Sor-ree
Sledge's best friend, tie from Sledge to Lecky (actually knew both men and personally knew Chesty Puller). Much of the movie is taken from his accounts and interviews, although he protested (among other things) the showing of "Chesty" at leisure with a pipe in front of enlisted men.

John Basilone
One of two winners of the Congressional Medal of Honor on Guadalcanal in one night for similar actions (involving the use of a Browning .50 cal) above and beyond the call of duty. According to Phillips, citations were accidentally switched. Evidence being that the other man actually had the burn-mark scars on his arm, as shown from photographs at reunion.
Basilone is a well-known and well documented war hero thanks to his war bonds campaign, and the only addition from outside the 1st Marine Division. Episodes 2 and 8 are supremely confusing from the way the story shifts between 1st Marines and Basilone's men. The rest are much more focused and more coherent. HBO knows how to draw attention and make money, and thus took the opportunity to include this big name.

R. V. Burgin
Islands of the Damned
Originally one of the 6 main characters, cut down to nothing but a name mention to allow more room for "Snafu". Member of Sledge's group.

Pvt. Merriell Shelton: "Snafu"
This guy steals the show later on. Written originally as a minor character, the actor's potrayal was excellent, and the character was compelling. Thus he's an unofficial main character by the end.

That is about the best I can do to help with characters. There are even a few minor members who resemble Ashton Holmes (Phillips's actor) in the 1st Marines Corps. This makes it much more difficult to pick out and follow Sledge's best friend, who is supposed to be setting up the background for Sledge's involvement (Sledge is the focus of 4 of the last 5 episodes). To make things more confusing, one of them goes nuts and another dies later in the show. Luckily, the other characters are much more distinctive-looking, and easy to pick out once you've picked up their names.

There are numerous errors throughout the story, from some of the events and actions that were inexplicably invented or altered, to those that were excluded, such as the alligators devouring the Japanese corpses after The Battle of the Tenaroo (the first battle scene). The soldiers at the Tenaroo were actually completely dug in and nearly impossible to hit (as they generally were throughout the island campaigns, which is never shown.) No one was really stupid enough to dig a 2-3 foot slit trench to sprawl around in when they had all day to prepare. Sitting with a veteran, you'll learn things. "We didn't have sand bags until the so-and-so." "No one ever called Leckie anything but Lucky."
With the amazing resources of information they had, it's astounding what kinds of things they goofed. It's also astounding how correct they were able to get many things thanks to input from experts.

All in all, it's a very good movie. But it's also a major disappointment after all of this expectation. I'm hoping they will release a complete version (something along the lines of the deluxe LoTR DVD set) later on, which will feature enough characterization to actually get us involved with the people before someone is killed and the dramatic, should-be-heartwrenching music comes prancing in to attempt to put us in the proper mood.

[Char13magne]

Second: It's not even about all of the Americans in the Pacific. They focused on the most well-documented group of soldiers, the First Marine Division. Band of Brothers was about one group of soldiers as well. It never ceases to amaze me how pissy people get when they don't realize that you need to focus on specific soldiers in a dramatic movie, and that you couldn't make a movie about all of the groups involved in a conflict even if you wanted to.

According to my father; my grandfather, a Pacific war veteran who fought in New Guinea and the Philippines, and made three landings, used to complain bitterly that to see the movies you would think no-one was fighting in the Pacific but the marines. The army was there too, and in some numbers! (And dying in some numbers too!)

[fenrif]

Pvt. Merriell Shelton: "Snafu"
This guy steals the show later on. Written originally as a minor character, the actor's potrayal was excellent, and the character was compelling. Thus he's an unofficial main character by the end.

Snafu is probobly my favorite character so far. Does anyone else think he'd be right at home in a vietnam film, or is that just me?

[The Architect]

Second: It's not even about all of the Americans in the Pacific. They focused on the most well-documented group of soldiers, the First Marine Division. Band of Brothers was about one group of soldiers as well. It never ceases to amaze me how pissy people get when they don't realize that you need to focus on specific soldiers in a dramatic movie, and that you couldn't make a movie about all of the groups involved in a conflict even if you wanted to.

According to my father; my grandfather, a Pacific war veteran who fought in New Guinea and the Philippines, and made three landings, used to complain bitterly that to see the movies you would think no-one was fighting in the Pacific but the marines. The army was there too, and in some numbers! (And dying in some numbers too!)

Well, I'm glad to see someone felt the need to prove my point: People just are too short-sighted to realize a movie can't be about everyone, and will complain profusely even though any sane person wouldn't want it to try to be.

[Char13magne]

Second: It's not even about all of the Americans in the Pacific. They focused on the most well-documented group of soldiers, the First Marine Division. Band of Brothers was about one group of soldiers as well. It never ceases to amaze me how pissy people get when they don't realize that you need to focus on specific soldiers in a dramatic movie, and that you couldn't make a movie about all of the groups involved in a conflict even if you wanted to.

According to my father; my grandfather, a Pacific war veteran who fought in New Guinea and the Philippines, and made three landings, used to complain bitterly that to see the movies you would think no-one was fighting in the Pacific but the marines. The army was there too, and in some numbers! (And dying in some numbers too!)

Well, I'm glad to see someone felt the need to prove my point: People just are too short-sighted to realize a movie can't be about everyone, and will complain profusely even though any sane person wouldn't want it to try to be.

Hey, I'm just relaying what my grandfather said, you can (or could  ) take it up with him.

[Grakelin]

What does your family member(s) do for the show, Architect?

[The Architect]

What does your family member(s) do for the show, Architect?

I don't really want to get anyone into trouble by identifying them. Going on the internet and revealing that you've seen the episodes could be construed as violating the agreement we made.

I don't know what the fine for violating that part of it was, but I remember the fine for pirating an episode (listed at the end of the agreement) was a minimum of $250,000 USD and 5 years in jail. So you could understand my trepidation. Let's just say that only those directly involved in making it and those allowed to do press reviews were allowed to temporarily possess copies before its release on national television.

[Akigagak]

Ah. So someone's an Editor of some kind.