Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Squirrelloid]

Meriadoc is a man (gender), but not a Man (race).
Eowyn is not a man (gender) but is a Man (race). 

Both of them together kill the witch king.

Tolkien pretty explicitly means gender here.  I mean, not only does the dialog support that interpretation, but the race interpretation is pretty worthless in a world where there are elves, dwarves, and dunedain, in addition to hobbits.  The Witchking wouldn't be nearly so confident nor the prophecy relevant if all you had to do was find a non-Man (race).

[Satarus]

I'm just saying both loopholes were covered in his death.  A hobbit and a woman worked together to kill the witch king.  Tolkien wrote that whole part because he thought McDuff being born by caesarean birth was a cop-out.

[Soadreqm]

"Merry" Brandybuck, swordshobbit strikes the Witch-King of Angmar to the left knee from behind, cutting the magic through the steel leggings!
"Merry" Brandybuck, swordshobbit gives in to pain.
The large dagger shatters!
The Witch-King of Angmar gives in to pain.
Éowyn, swordswoman strikes the Witch-King of Angmar to the head, shattering the magic!
The Witch-King of Angmar has been struck down!
Éowyn, swordswoman gives in to pain.

And yeah, Merry was too man to kill the Witch-King. It was a prophecy, anyway, so it might be less that a man can't kill him and more that Éowyn is destined to. Never trust prophecies, they'll screw you over at the worst possible time.

And of course there's nothing mentioned about seriously maiming him or burying him alive for four thousand years. Gandalf seemed pretty confident about facing him before they were distracted.

[Supermikhail]

Has this already been posted?:

_{Goblin cancels gloat: Job item lost or misplaced x48
Warg cancels howl: Job item lost or misplaced x43
Gandalf "The Grey" has begun a conversation with a Eagle Lord.}


Is there an announcement for a conversation ending?

[Solarn]

You do realize it was Merry, not Eowyn, who struck down the Witch-King, right?

No, it was Eowyn who killed him, when Merry stabbed him was enough of a distraction to let her get the killing blow. Also, someone might want to mention the paralysis effect that happens to anyone who stabs Angmmar The Witch-King (Angmar is the place he's from, not who he is).

Strange. I dug out my English copy of LoTR, and you're apparently right. I always remembered it being Merry, which would have made the entire thing so much cooler.

[Squirrelloid]

"Merry" Brandybuck, swordshobbit strikes the Witch-King of Angmar to the left knee from behind, cutting the magic through the steel leggings!
"Merry" Brandybuck, swordshobbit gives in to pain.
The large dagger shatters!
The Witch-King of Angmar gives in to pain.
Éowyn, swordswoman strikes the Witch-King of Angmar to the head, shattering the magic!
The Witch-King of Angmar has been struck down!
Éowyn, swordswoman gives in to pain.

And yeah, Merry was too man to kill the Witch-King. It was a prophecy, anyway, so it might be less that a man can't kill him and more that Éowyn is destined to. Never trust prophecies, they'll screw you over at the worst possible time.

And of course there's nothing mentioned about seriously maiming him or burying him alive for four thousand years. Gandalf seemed pretty confident about facing him before they were distracted.

Now with combat logs!  Clearly we need little red Cs on the margins of the text, hyperlinked to the relevant combat logs.

[Solarn]

And of course there's nothing mentioned about seriously maiming him or burying him alive for four thousand years. Gandalf seemed pretty confident about facing him before they were distracted.

Then again, it's entirely possible that Gandalf is above prophecies, seeing as he is one of the maiar.

[Solifuge]

Highly entertaining read.

As a point of interest, these are the tags for ◄MAGIC ITEM►, as listed in the raws. I'd suggest adding them to the old elven swords, the One Ring, etc.

But yes, highly entertaining, peeps.

[Supermikhail]

I've once heard on the radio that Tolkien was very... Christian. And in Christianity nothing much is above prophecies (I'm pointing at the Apocalypse).

[Solarn]

I've once heard on the radio that Tolkien was very... Christian. And in Christianity nothing much is above prophecies (I'm pointing at the Apocalypse).

I've once read on the internet that Tolkien was crazy and LoTR was a way of escaping reality for him. Your point is?

Besides, Arda is as far removed from Christianity as possible. Whatever Tolkien's own beliefs were, he clearly didn't feel the need to burden his creation with them.

[Soadreqm]

Yeah, Tolkien was a reasonably devout catholic, pals with C.S. Lewis, and drew a lot of stuff from Christian mythology among other things. I don't think that had much to do with his prophecies, especially considering everyone already knows he took that bit from Shakespeare.

Elsewhere in the setting, though, it seems that people take that kind of thing seriously. Fëanor's sons swore their oath in the name of Ilúvatar, and Manwe couldn't release them from it. When Morgoth cursed Húrin, it stuck. Holy oaths and such were presumably binding unless otherwise stated. That said, Gandalf probably could have taken the Witch-king in combat, but as per the prophecy, they never fight.

Now, because I like to at least pretend I'm staying on topic, and can't remember the bits that come next in Hobbit, my rendition of the ring destroying scene:
Frodo Baggins, Ringbearer cancels dump item: Went insane.
Frodo Baggins, Ringbearer has decided to keep the Ring!
Frodo Baggins, Ringbearer has become invisible.
Frodo Baggins, Ringbearer cancels megalomania: Interrupted by "Gollum".
Frodo Baggins, Ringbearer cancels megalomania: Resting injury.
Frodo Baggins, Ringbearer is no longer invisible.
"Gollum" has organized a party at the magma forge.
"Gollum" cancels attend party: Dangerous terrain.
"Gollum" has died in the heat!
"The Master Ring", a legendary artifact has been destroyed!
Sauron, Dark lord has been struck down.
A flock of eagles has arrived.

[Lord Shonus]

You have discovered a river
Bombur, Fatso, has fallen into a river
Bombur, Fatso, cancels travel: Exhausted x999
Dwarf cancels attend party: Cannot find path x50
Dwarf cancels travel:webbed x12
Giant Forest Spider cancels eat: Interrupted by burglar
The burglar stabs the Giant Forest Spider in the eyes with his ◄Elven Dagger►
The burglar stabs the Giant Forest Spider in the body with his ◄Elven Dagger►
The Giant Forest Spider has been struck down!
The burglar has bestowed the name Sting on his ◄Elven Dagger►!
The spinning small rock strikes the Giant Forest Spider in the head, bruising it!
The Giant Forest Spider has passed out from the pain!
The spinning small rock strikes the Giant Forest Spider in the body, shattering it!
The Giant Forest Spider has been struck down!
Giant Forest Spider cancels eat: Interrupted by Burglar x20
Giant Forest Spider cancels eat: Interrupted by Voices x20
The Giant Forest Spider had Become Enraged! x20
The Giant Forest Spider has been struck down! x10
Giant Forest Spider cancels kill: Interrupted by Voices x20
Bilbo Baggins, Burglar has entered a martial trance!
Giant Cave Spider cancels kill burglar: Too afraid
Dwarf Cancels Flee: Interrupted by Elf x12

[Arkenstone]

I've once heard on the radio that Tolkien was very... Christian. And in Christianity nothing much is above prophecies (I'm pointing at the Apocalypse).

I've once read on the internet that Tolkien was crazy and LoTR was a way of escaping reality for him. Your point is?

Besides, Arda is as far removed from Christianity as possible. Whatever Tolkien's own beliefs were, he clearly didn't feel the need to burden his creation with them.

Actually, Tolkien's mythology is almost completely compatible with Christianity.  The Silmarillion was written from the elven point of view, which has a few interesting points in it:

1.  The elves don't have a religion, because they already understood who made the world go 'round.
2.  Said creator (Ilúvatar, which has the same connotations in Elvish as "the Lord" does in English) is an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being whose nature is not explained in the book, except that He was beyond ANYONE'S comprehension (even that of the Valar!)
3.  This being created the Valar to please Him; and so too Arda (the earth).
4.  The greatest of the Valar and therefore the second-most powerful being in existence was Melkor, but he rebelled and was later named Morgoth.
5.  Many of the Valar then entered Arda to serve inside it; they were later mistaken for gods by men.
6.  The elves were called the first-born children of Ilúvatar, Men were the second.
7.  The elves were completely contained inside the bounds of the world, and therefore were immortal (e.g. they couldn't leave if they wanted to, and the weight of the world was indeed heavy upon them).
8.  Men were given the gift of being able to leave the world itself, (aka die) but Morgoth misled them to believe that that was a curse. (Seriously, if life sucks so much, why would you not want to leave?)
9.  The final fate of man was not known to the elves, but they said it may be revealed to men somewhere else. (aka the Bible)

So if you think about it, Tolkien did a really good job at getting pagan mythology to fit into christian religious teachings.  Every moral lesson, for instance, actually coincides with age-old christian values.



And as for the dwarves...
      The 7 fathers of the dwarves were created by Aulë, (see below) who was impatient with the emptiness of the world in the time before the elves awoke.  He wasn't supposed to do that.  Besides, the dwarves were as lacking of life as Toady's, only being able to act as and when ordained.  Ilúvatar, who of course knew what was going on, came down and confronted Aulë; who repented, offering to destroy his creation.  The dwarves were cowering, and from that it was known that they had, in fact, been given life.  However, they were then put to sleep and hidden in different places under the mountains, to await the time of their awakening: after elves but before man.

Now, Aulë was one of the most similar of the Valar to Melkor, with the important difference of remaining loyal.  He was the smith of the Valar, crafting things merely to create them, and giving them away freely afterwords.

A very *interesting* fact is that his wife is Yavanna, who created TREES and asked for the creation of the Ents to guard them.

[Supermikhail]

The 7 fathers of the dwarves were created by Aulë, (see below) who was impatient with the emptiness of the world in the time before the elves awoke.  He wasn't supposed to do that.  Besides, the dwarves were as lacking of life as Toady's, only being able to act as and when ordained.  Ilúvatar, who of course knew what was going on, came down and confronted Aulë; who repented, offering to destroy his creation.  The dwarves were cowering, and from that it was known that they had, in fact, been given life.  However, they were then put to sleep and hidden in different places under the mountains, to await the time of their awakening: after elves but before man.

Now I want Toady to implement a mechanic where

You've discovered dwarven brothers! Praise the miners!

[smokingwreckage]

What if you found a glowing pit, that echoed with the remembered ring of hammer on anvil, and in it was a stone slab with a sleeping legendary dwarven ancestor?

HOLY CRAP.