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[Soulwynd]

....No ...DNF was terrible because they made a terrible game. DN3D was a much better game and still is a much better game than DNF even today. You're once again blaming on the market what is not the market's fault. They were the developers decisions based on faulty perceptions, logic and what appears to be plain laziness. It's not the market's fault DNF was crap, it's some retarded people's fault for making a crappy game. You're doing the same fallacy again and I'm not exactly attacking you, I'm saying this is the exact same faulty thought developers use as excuse to the shit they throw at people.

And petitio principii is not necessarily the circular fallacy, it's using a conclusion as argument.

Eg.:

-They're not making x-com as a tactical-strategy game because people wont buy it.
-Why not? They could make an awesome tactical game, using the new graphical technology and even add a twist with the sort of cool aliens they came up with. There are many areas that can be innovative and capture people's attention, not only that they have a huge name backing them when it comes to awesome tactical games. For example; UFO:Aftermath, one of X-Com's spiritual successors, hit the top 10 and top 30 of several sales charts when it was launched.
-No, because people wont buy it.

[ZebioLizard2]

...No ...DNF was terrible because they made a terrible game.

Everyone keeps throwing out Terrible..It's Fricken average! Stop using the hype to justify calling it terrible. Kung Fu Panda the Game is terrible, Big rig racing is terrible. Duke nukem was AVERAGE.

Besides, it was what Gearbox salvaged from that incompetent game studio. I'm just hoping for better releases in the future now that gearbox has it.

[Vibhor]

...No ...DNF was terrible because they made a terrible game.

Everyone keeps throwing out Terrible..It's Fricken average! Stop using the hype to justify calling it terrible. Kung Fu Panda the Game is terrible, Big rig racing is terrible. Duke nukem was AVERAGE.

Besides, it was what Gearbox salvaged from that incompetent game studio. I'm just hoping for better releases in the future now that gearbox has it.

Terrible terrible terrible terrible!
Have you disintegrated yet?
Gearbox completed all the levels which were also a gripe of mine(being linear and all).
It was terrible because it sucked. The game didn't turn out to be something which everyone expected(nobody expected it to fulfill all 14 years of development though)
Gearbox also did a shitty job of not making the game good. Its fault of everyone that the game turned out to be shit not just gearbox though.
Also, why the hell are you defending duke nukem in a thread about XCom?
I see this as an indication that Xcom too will be terrible.

[Soulwynd]

...No ...DNF was terrible because they made a terrible game.

Everyone keeps throwing out Terrible..It's Fricken average! Stop using the hype to justify calling it terrible. Kung Fu Panda the Game is terrible, Big rig racing is terrible. Duke nukem was AVERAGE.

Besides, it was what Gearbox salvaged from that incompetent game studio. I'm just hoping for better releases in the future now that gearbox has it.

Someone has a crush on the Duke. Plus the engine the game works on is from 2008, at the very best, the present version of DNF is only 1 or 2 years old. You have only gearbox to blame for this DNF.

Either way, I was just replying to the other dude. Not that I don't share his opinion, DNF isn't average. It's terrible. Not even Spore managed that sort of terribleness. I'd say it turned out like a game for children, but more like a game for people with childish minds. Several long driving and turret sections with only very few (By very feel I mean one) genuinely well thought and funny sections. Not to mention unskipable 3 minute long cutscenes you have to rewatch whenever you die. It is more like a patchwork of stupid ideas than a game. In the words of the cynical brit; they took the worst things about modern shooters and the worst things about old school shooters and put them together in a game. It's not average, it's not even bad, it's the perfect example of everything you should not ever do when making a shooter.

Think of this as a cook. If you taste your food before serving and it tastes like crap, will you still serve it? If your answer is anything other than no, no matter what excuses you come up with, you're either a politician or an average console game developer.

[ZebioLizard2]

Also, why the hell are you defending duke nukem in a thread about XCom?
I see this as an indication that Xcom too will be terrible.

Because doing so is basically wasting text due to the fact it's been beaten to hell and back it does not look like XCOM in any way, shape, or form. Though I am a bit optimistic, so I will wait and see how well XCOM itself plays due to the fact we've yet to actually see how well the gameplay flows together yet. It's not XCOM, but it may be a good generic alien shooter in the end.

Though I do hope for a twist ending that these aliens are being manipulated into fighting because Ethereals are commanding them from afar, and that they will soon prepare their own invasion from mars once they fail. (Insert sequel with aliens and time period people actually wanted)

(Also Fuck you blobatovs, seriously, who the hell was naming the weapons at the time!?)

DNF isn't average. It's terrible. Not even Spore managed that sort of terribleness.

Than your standards are way to high. Spore was also average. You want bad games? Play Bomberman Act Zero, Daikatana, Bubsy 3D, Superman 64 and the other various games I've seen (and regretted) paying money for.

[Vibhor]

Than your standards are way to high. Spore was also average. You want bad games? Play Bomberman Act Zero, Daikatana, Bubsy 3D, Superman 64 and the other various games I've seen (and regretted) paying money for.

Daikatana isn't terrible, it was just a bit too hyped. The only fault is the crappy AI. The humor is quite good and the combat was fun. Its average at best.
See what I did there?

[ZebioLizard2]

Than your standards are way to high. Spore was also average. You want bad games? Play Bomberman Act Zero, Daikatana, Bubsy 3D, Superman 64 and the other various games I've seen (and regretted) paying money for.

Daikatana isn't terrible, it was just a bit too hyped. The only fault is the crappy AI. The humor is quite good and the combat was fun. Its average at best.
See what I did there?

Opinions are subjective? Shocking! 

Though on the X-com, it'd have been kinda funny if instead of the 50's feel, they had done like X-com Apocapylse, where humanity went with the 50's feel in order to make humans feel good after the planet gets completely screwed thanks the ending of TFTD, but it's very futuristic.

[Vibhor]

Opinions are subjective? Shocking! 

Though on the X-com, it'd have been kinda funny if instead of the 50's feel, they had done like X-com Apocapylse, where humanity went with the 50's feel in order to make humans feel good after the planet gets completely screwed thanks the ending of TFTD, but it's very futuristic.

And yet you attack someone with a different opinion?
Hypocrisy is rampant? Shocking!
Oh and Xcom never went to 50s. The reboot is completely non canonical. Aliens weren't there before the first one and the world was in ruins after the last one. There IS no middle ground.

[ZebioLizard2]

Opinions are subjective? Shocking! 

Though on the X-com, it'd have been kinda funny if instead of the 50's feel, they had done like X-com Apocapylse, where humanity went with the 50's feel in order to make humans feel good after the planet gets completely screwed thanks the ending of TFTD, but it's very futuristic.

And yet you attack someone with a different opinion?
Hypocrisy is rampant? Shocking!
Oh and Xcom never went to 50s. The reboot is completely non canonical. Aliens weren't there before the first one and the world was in ruins after the last one. There IS no middle ground.

I didn't attack you? The closest I came was saying that your standards might be a bit high, but I kept it relatively simple without insulting you.

Of course the issue with canonical is that as you've noted, it'd have to either be a complete remake (possible), a sequal after the end that retcons things (Worse), or simply make their own universe where things were different (not that bad, still better than them trying to wreck canonicity)

Though they could have at least had the ethereals planning it or something, something to keep it somewhat close to canon.

[Vibhor]

I didn't attack you? The closest I came was saying that your standards might be a bit high, but I kept it relatively simple without insulting you.

Of course the issue with canonical is that as you've noted, it'd have to either be a complete remake (possible), a sequal after the end that retcons things (Worse), or simply make their own universe where things were different (not that bad, still better than them trying to wreck canonicity)

Though they could have at least had the ethereals planning it or something, something to keep it somewhat close to canon.

You didn't attack me but you got all worked up when some other guy said duke nukem forever was terrible.

If they do keep the ethereals then it would feel sort of fallout 3 all over again. It would have the same things as the predecessors but it just isn't the same.
Also, how would they replicate the ethereals for a single player game? All they could do is some interface screw attack. All that would make ethereals look like wussies.

[Soulwynd]

Than your standards are way to high. Spore was also average. You want bad games? Play Bomberman Act Zero, Daikatana, Bubsy 3D, Superman 64 and the other various games I've seen (and regretted) paying money for.

Well, first off I'm going to assume you don't know me as I don't really recall reading your name, so I can't be sure we had any previous interaction. Anyone in the Other Games section on the forums, that has read anything from me before, will know I absolutely hate [most if not all] console games.

Most PC oriented games are over here

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Console games and ports are generally over here.

So basically speaking, the games you mentioned all suffer from consolitis, as well as DNF and are either under the crap or floating on it. The reason I hate console games is not because they're on the console or because I hate controllers, which I do. Consoles have had a nice era or fun interesting game, but right now I hate them because they're simply horrible. It's like they're made for people who; Can't think, can only react, and suffer from massive inferiority complex.

The problem isn't even with my standards, I can usually find one or two good things that are enjoyable about a game and sometimes they actually make up for it. The problem is that, in the DNF example I can't really find anything like that.

The problem with this present XCOM game is that it has the X-Com name on it. It's extremely offensive to us, X-Com lovers. Spoony wasn't screaming BETRAYAL on E3 2010 at the top of his lungs to the people people stopped and stared at him for nothing. X-Com is a great name in tactical & management games, people often go back to it as example of what's fun and what you could fix to make it better. It's just a complete waste to take X-Com and make a crappy Mass Effect out of it. It was tried before, it failed, with that game that doesn't exist.

Sure it may turn out as a turd-floating-average alien shooter. But it's not X-Com and really has nothing to do with it. I mean, I will look at people play it, if it's interesting enough, I will play it myself, but... It's the death of the X-Com name... Right after we got past the previous death of it.

[nenjin]

You know what my day was missing?

A piece of brown ASCII soft serve.

[Soulwynd]

I thought it would be a nice dramatic touch.

[ZebioLizard2]

Spoony wasn't screaming BETRAYAL on E3 2010 at the top of his lungs to the people people stopped and stared at him for nothing

I saw that, it was such a..humiliating moment for gamers. I mean, I've played every X-com game, I've played the ufo series, I've worked with a mod to try and restore content to Apocalypse, but by the grace of some living deity, that was so horribly BAD. That was just so far into drama queen territory that I cringed when I realized that's the main way some X-COM gamers are reacting, but in public now? No, just no. Even Angry Joe was giving that. "Oh shit what the hell is he doing look"

[Virtz]

Spoony wasn't screaming BETRAYAL on E3 2010 at the top of his lungs to the people people stopped and stared at him for nothing

I saw that, it was such a..humiliating moment for gamers. I mean, I've played every X-com game, I've played the ufo series, I've worked with a mod to try and restore content to Apocalypse, but by the grace of some living deity, that was so horribly BAD. That was just so far into drama queen territory that I cringed when I realized that's the main way X-COM gamers are reacting, but in public now? No, just no.

So blatantly kissing ass is ok but the opposite isn't?