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Author Topic: X-COM Reboot: Suicide Pact, anyone?  (Read 33908 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2010, 08:41:38 am »

Speaking of which:
Quote from: article
makes substantial changes to the original series, combining research and planning elements not with overhead, turn-based strategy sections, but with first-person shooter action.
That somehow sounds like it might be like regular X-Com, but with turnbased tactical battles replaced with realtime FPS tactical battles a-la the SWAT series (or Rogue Spear, or what have you). This, if it does happen that way, might be a rather interesting twist in the series. There was realtime combat before - in Apocalypse. Translate that into an FPS mode, and there might be something good after all.
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Virtz

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2010, 08:47:20 am »

Hey guys, let's rage before we have any news on how the game is going to play.  Moderation and optimism are for mainstream gamers, and you know how those guys are.
Yes, let's totally bash this game down before we get a hold of so much as a shred of plot or a single gameplay description. Really.
"FPS" is description enough for those who don't want a spin-off X-Com. What are they supposed to be optimistic about?
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Cthulhu

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2010, 08:55:22 am »

They're taking the series in a new direction, what's wrong with that?  Yeah, Enforcer and whatever were bad, but an X-Com FPS has never been done before, and you're condemning it while knowing nothing about it except "It's an FPS of some sort"

I suppose that's the fate of a well-loved game.  If you make a sequel and don't change anything, people get mad.  If you change stuff, people get mad.  You just can't win.
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Virtz

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2010, 09:31:20 am »

They're taking the series in a new direction, what's wrong with that?  Yeah, Enforcer and whatever were bad, but an X-Com FPS has never been done before, and you're condemning it while knowing nothing about it except "It's an FPS of some sort"
Yes, there was. It was called Alliance and it was cancelled (although not due to the game itself). And looking from behind the character and from the character's head hardly makes a difference when the emphasis is on the shooter part.

They've already taken the series in a new direction twice. How about returning to the roots for a change?

And I've yet to see how this is relevant to those who don't want a spin-off X-Com. Why would they be happy or optimistic because they're making a spin-off again ("taking a new direction") instead of making an actual X-Com game?

I suppose that's the fate of a well-loved game.  If you make a sequel and don't change anything, people get mad.  If you change fundamental gameplay elements, people get mad.  You just can't win.
Fixed.

Remember how pissed people were about Fallout 2 changing hardly anything in terms of gameplay? I don't. Or how about Baldur's Gate 2? Or Jagged Alliance 2?
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Firgof Umbra

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2010, 09:41:34 am »

What's with developers saying 'Nah.  That genre is dead.' these days?  It's not the genre's fault they don't know how to make it fresh and exciting.

I bet the Syndicate remake is going to be an MMO at this rate...

And I bet this will go over like Enforcer, Renegade, and others like it before it.  Unless they do BZ2, which is unlikely, it's VERY probable that it will turn into just a uncontrollable mess.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 09:45:04 am by Firgof Umbra »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2010, 09:48:29 am »

Back then, you couldn't go wrong remaking Fallout. It was a straight sequel, same engine, same everything, just more and better. Same goes for just about any other classic game. X-Com, however, has been driven into the ground. Two parts of the original, Apocalypse, three (four?) parts of the latest remake, plus the fan remake. There's nothing new to add. If they tried a straight remake again, it would be mediocre, for all the cosmetic innovations they could do. The only choice is a variation, and since the studio in question has recently made a very good FPS, they could follow up with the same while their skills are hot.

Also, my post above. If it's a strategy with FPS elements instead of TBT elements, I'm all for it. Think SWAT or Rogue Spear, but on a larger scale. If it isn't, well, then I don't know. But I'd rather have a potentially bland official X-Com spinoff than no official X-Com game at all, personally. It's the same with Mechwarrior.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2010, 09:54:19 am »

A SWAT 4-esque X-Com (With research and such) would be the coolest thing ever to exist, ever.
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TheCze

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2010, 10:06:23 am »

I love SWAT4 and I must admit, a X-Com SWAT4 Style game would be interesting.
But the heart and soul of X-Com is turn based strategy combat.

I'm afraid that this will rather turn out into a Bioshock/Cod style game I'm afraid, "Research" might turn out to walking to "Research Stations" scattered over levels like in Borderlands or Bioshock I bet....

Of course, I might be totally wrong and I would love to. Let's just hope the best.
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Firgof Umbra

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2010, 10:18:59 am »

Quote
There's nothing new to add. If they tried a straight remake again, it would be mediocre, for all the cosmetic innovations they could do. The only choice is a variation, and since the studio in question has recently made a very good FPS, they could follow up with the same while their skills are hot.

I disagree heartily.  X-COM is by no means some 'pinnacle of TBS elements'.  It can have a lot more meat on its bones and I think it's a real problem that everyone who has tried to climb that mountain of success and has fallen off has failed to realize that the problem with their goal wasn't where they were trying to get but how.

X-COM was good; great, even.  I spent very long summer holidays with it.  I still have a copy installed. Fanatical?  Maybe.  But putting that aside:  There's a lot of room for new ideas just for the original UFO Defense and TFTD. 

Everything takes place on Planet Earth.  Why?  Why don't we ever take the fight to the aliens and do the first part of the game in reverse?  (You build bases on the Alien's world, force them to submit, etc.)  That's an angle we could pursue; maybe this could make the game even longer.  So you FINALLY stopped the invasion of Earth.  What's their next move?  Well, probably, they're going to wake shit up underneath the Sea.  So you deal with that crap.  By this point you're probably pretty tired of these aliens so why not bring the fight to them?  Earth can take weeks or months to clear out and clear up and that's fine and awesome.  But why do things have to always end with Earth?  If the aliens are still out there aren't they just going to come back one day now that they know what kind of threat we are?

Why don't we have morphable terrain?  Why don't we have targetable limbs?  Why isn't research more modular/weapons more modular?  Why can I only manufacture new things and not things like Grenades?  For that matter, why are there only a few kinds of human weapons?  Why can't those weapons be 'enhanced' by alien technology? Where are our procedurally generated levels?  Why can't -we- spy on and infiltrate the aliens' bases?  Why does all combat take place either on the ground or always in the sea with no crossover  Why can't we stop a ship dead in the air and infiltrate it there late-game?  Why can't we do mid-air forced boardings?

Why don't we have more civilians and more at stake?  Why don't the aliens resort to larger measures over time such as sacrificing a ship to blow up a whole city?  Why can't I guard meetings of Heads of State from alien attacks?  Why don't aliens try to replace powerful figures like the Presidents of Countries?  Why don't aliens try to use Biological Weaponry if we let them capture humans and cattle enough times?  Why don't cities ever have any military support of their own?  (National Guard, etc.)?  Why can't the aliens capture and use those facilities against us?  (AA Guns, etc.)

Why is Psionics so limited?  All we get to do is drain Morale or take Control of an alien.  Though very cool, why can't we just kill aliens with a lot of mind power as long as it drains Health and Morale?  Why can't we 'suck' information from them then rather than waste time and money 'interrogating' them later?  Why don't our interrogators use that Mind Control technique anyway?  In fact, why can't my soldiers carry out interrogations of Aliens?  In fact, we can intercept communications from the aliens; why can't we change the mission and location that a ship is going if we force an alien Commander to give them that order?  For that matter, it's obvious we can triangulate where psionic signals are coming from -- why can't we make some sort of Detector other than the Motion Detector?  Why aren't there other sorts of Detectors other than the Motion Detector?  Why can't I integrate those detectors into my soldiers' armors?  Why can't the aliens be detectable on certain kinds of detectors?  WHY DON'T WE EVER GET NIGHT VISION GOGGLES or get huge flares to shoot up in the sky to make things bright as day in a large radius for a little while?  Why can't we set up mobile floodlights and so forth?  For that matter, why don't we have things like flash bangs which only work on aliens which have eyes?

Why don't the aliens ever armor up?  Why don't the aliens get detectors and all that?  Why don't they get devices like EMPs which shut down electronic devices but keep theirs running?  Why can't they put down traps for humans like our Proximity Grenades?  Why don't the aliens ever try to capture one of the X-COM soldiers?  Why don't they ever use that directly against you and use that soldier to find your base if they're not tough enough physically or mentally?  Why can't you try to rescue that soldier if you have researched a sort of tracking device for your soldiers?  Why can't you set up that sort of encounter?   Why can't the aliens get wise to it and just kill your soldiers on sight and mind rape any survivors until they get what they want and then kill them?

Why did the Interception phase get the axe in so many of the follow-up fan sequels -- why wasn't that improved?  Why can't we make 'portfolios' of inventory (e.g. "sets of equipment" templates) to make outfitting our Squad better and easier?  Why can't we give our troops ways to toughen up outside of combat (firing ranges, physical training centers, etc.)?

Why is base defense so static?  Why don't I get to control my own doors and install turrets and so forth?  Why don't the aliens get to try and disable those defenses while they invade?  For that matter, why don't I have to worry about things like the security of my information network, my electrical grid, and my ventilation shafts?  Why can't those have advantages in combat?

Why can't I get my soldiers to go to a "Standby" mode where instead of Reaction Firing, they spend their whole turn standing still, when something eventful happens they get their turn, and half of their usual Time Movement points?

Why can't my guys do things like suppressive fire to lower the Morale of enemies?  Why don't they do the same to us?

Aliens eventually get weapons that fire around corners.  Why can't we figure out a way to do the same?  Why don't we ever seem to do things like Fire-bombs on the downed Alien ships (say, Napalm) to try and kill the Aliens that are out in the field at a cost of damage to the craft?  Why aren't there more options in general when you're about to do a landing?  Why can't I pick and choose WHERE I'm landing?  Why don't the aliens get to shoot at me while I attempt to do so?

And on and on and on.

I can just list ideas from now until the day the cows come home.  To say that it's "been done to death" is doing a disservice to ingenuity.  Just because people aren't willing to try and expand on the original doesn't mean it's a bad idea to do so and doesn't mean XCOM has nothing left to offer.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 10:46:12 am by Firgof Umbra »
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cerapa

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2010, 10:22:47 am »

If its a strategy game that has a geoscape and base building and reasearch like x-com but with FPS sections instead of turn-based, then Im all in if it isnt bad. If not so, then I probably wont buy it.

Simple as that, its their money if they choose take it.
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Solifuge

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2010, 10:26:03 am »

There is a distinct possibility that it wont absolutely suck. If properly handled, with some interesting game mechanics, you could progress down the pathway from being owned by the aliens to reverse-engineering tech and being able to take the fight to them.

I've seen a rather interesting FPS/Strategy Game fusion in Pandemic's Battlezone Series. Check it out, if you aren't familiar.

Not to say it can be as awesome as American and Soviet armies duking it out on the moon, but hey.
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HonkyPunch

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2010, 11:00:37 am »

I don't know. I think skepticism over this is warranted based on what happened to Fallout. Given, Fallout 3 was enjoyable enough but it was nowhere near the quality of the original 2, IMO. Just like Bioshock. As a "spiritual sucessor" to System Shock, I think it failed. At no point during the game did I feel the same way as I did while playing System Shock (1 or 2), even if it was a decent game on it's own. I get the feeling that, at the very least, this will follow suite, being a decent game, but nowhere near the quality or style of the originals, instead focusing on "action" instead of strategy. If they throw in some tactical mechanics of some sort that aren't simply pressing "A" to send your 3 man squad to stand behind a wall, it would improve it. But I dunno.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2010, 11:13:13 am »

Quote
There's nothing new to add. If they tried a straight remake again, it would be mediocre, for all the cosmetic innovations they could do. The only choice is a variation, and since the studio in question has recently made a very good FPS, they could follow up with the same while their skills are hot.

Spoiler: humongous wall of text (click to show/hide)
Some of those were implemented in the recent reimaginings. UFO:Afterlight takes place on Mars, for instance, and levels at least seem randomly set up, from time to time. UFO:Aftermath had modular weapons (in the "stick a silencer onto a gun" sense). Over the years, the tactical TBS genre has had tons of things in it. We should really see how it turns out, flaming a game just because it's a different take on the original is a good way to avoid Hype Backlash, but it's usually only good if anything is known about the game itself.
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Tilla

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2010, 11:26:22 am »

 ::)

All indications is that it's going to be Bioshock with Aliens. I mean, there's no mention of squad-based action, in fact it's heavily implied you're some lone FBI agent in the press release. Lame.
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HideousBeing

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Re: Suicide Pact, anyone?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2010, 11:26:30 am »

Maybe they could revive the series by making a tactical game first? Just an idea.

Honestly the thinking was probably this...
Dev: "xcom was popular lets bring it back"
Business dude: "okay lets make it an fps because those sell well with the kids these days"
Dev: "but... but..."
Business dude: "Great idea then! lets revive this series!"
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