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[MrWiggles]

Took ideas from?

If he took them then there would would been law suits about it. Its against the law and called plagiarism and a few others things.

Or not. Because taking ideas from elsewhere does not qualify as plagiarism, but as... "inspiration", if you may. If you went along killing every story that copied elements from another story, you'd kill most of the literature in the world. A good deal of it would be crap, granted, but you would also kill good works in the process

For the most part, yea. Its why its a moot criticism.

[Sensei]

Eh, there's a balance of how many old ideas you can use.

Also, saying "He said magic words" would be really awkward narratively. And I guess Welsh is more creative than Latin (cough).

Oh, and Eragon is only like Star Wars in the movie, which wasn't a great adaptation.

[ChairmanPoo]

For the most part, yea. Its why its a moot criticism.

I don't think it's 100% moot. It just has to be taken with a grain of salt. A book might be very simmilar to some other work, and yet be well-written, or twist the basic structure in some new interesting manner. Or simply be entertaining enough to be worth the time, even if otherwise it's so average it will be forgotten in a week.

TL,DR: Originality is important but it's not the only factor by far

[MrWiggles]

Its an improper way to address it. I haven't read Eragon, so I can't address it issues. A deconstruction of what it does badly would be much appreciated and citation of where it was done better to compare and contrast.

From the Wiki, it has a varity of issues. Some of it can be forgiven knowing that the book was self published, written for love and done by a person not out of high school.

[Sensei]

I didn't see a ton wrong with it when I read it, but that was ages ago. Aside from the sue-ish elf princess. The sequel was a bit wangstier.

[Lord Shonus]

As an author, Paloni has two serious problems. The first is that Eragon got a ton more praise than it actually deserved due to the age of the author and the fact that it was published in the Second Tolkien Craze (my term). While not a terrible book, it was nowhere near as good as many reviewers treated it. The second is that he not only injected large elements of philosophy into the books (resulting in the infamous atheist vegan elves) but was not content to leave the philosophies of the characters mostly static when his own changed.

[MrWiggles]

From my understanding the critics were mixed on Eragon. Its age group which its popular with are under read so their opinion on greatness can respected in view of its context but not towards its place in literature overall. Yea, tween and mid teens thinks its awesome sauce. *shrugs* Its odd to have read Douglas Adam, Vogunart, Tolkien, the Illiad, Ray Bradbury, Brain Jacques, ect... at that age. Hopefully they will. There is great literature for that age group. Some of it still near and dear to my heart. Wrinkle In Time comes to mind readily, as does Harry Potter. Wrinkle in Time is a trippy book.

From what I've gathered that it has various and numerous issues but overall it can keep you reading.

[Renault]

Its an improper way to address it. I haven't read Eragon, so I can't address it issues. A deconstruction of what it does badly would be much appreciated and citation of where it was done better to compare and contrast.

From the Wiki, it has a varity of issues. Some of it can be forgiven knowing that the book was self published, written for love and done by a person not out of high school.

Eh, there's a balance of how many old ideas you can use.

Also, saying "He said magic words" would be really awkward narratively. And I guess Welsh is more creative than Latin (cough).

Oh, and Eragon is only like Star Wars in the movie, which wasn't a great adaptation.

......really, guys? You're defending Eragon?
I'll let Tvtropes take it from here.

"The novels feature the tale of a farmboy who discovers a Plot Coupon sent to a wise old mentor by a captured princess, and has his uncle who raised him killed by the impenetrably cowled servants of the Evil Empire. The two set off for revenge. The mentor is a former knight, who teaches the farmboy how to use his mystical powers in about five days (not that his magic is much use until he becomes stronger) and gives him a magical sword that belonged to his father before buying the farm. Luckily, the farmboy meets up with a Badass AntiHero, rescues the princess, who is also a major player in the Rebel army, and joins the rebellion, becoming a key member before going to train with a half-mad old hermit in the forest. After this, he discovers that his father was the Empire's right-hand man and he's been betrayed by his own family. "

Never defend the originality of Eragon's storyline. Ever. Even if you liked it, have the humility to admit its essentially Star Wars without lasers.

[MrWiggles]

Your counter point is from a wiki that pride itself in being comical, light tone and satirical? A wiki that doesn't really have standards or enforcement of quality. Or it doesn't seem to.

Seriously this is like going 'OH YEA!' as a come back. Weak sauce.

And I don't think the few saying that Eargon isn't all bad has addressed its plot. So you miss twice. Congrats.

[Renault]

Technically thats an ad hominem attack on the site--the fact its a satirical site has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the statement.
Whats amusing is that your reply was in fact doing what you accused mine of. I didn't say oh yeah. I posted a summary of Eragons plot--a book you admit you havent even read. You're the one who dismissed my point with a mere "Naw," so don't take that arrogant tone. Its unseemly.
*sigh*
Finally, I didn't say it was bad. I said its plot isn't original. As in, I literally typed the words "originality of Eragon's plot." Note that I didn't type "you should hate this book," because I actually liked it. Don't put words in my mouth, wiggles.
In short, don't be a jerk. Also, read the book before you argue about it.

[MrWiggles]

No, its not an ad homien as TvTropes doesn't promote itself as a place to take facts from. Its a comical website that incredibly enthralling. Its not an insult if its true. TvTropes doesn't lend itself to be taken seriously and shouldn't be. It was questioning of quality of information resource which is prudent.

Your opening statement of disbelieve that someone was defending Eargon implied that it shouldn't be defended or it was undefendable, which I took as dislike to the series. Then you posted something about the plot that wasn't being discussed right now. Its what I interjected on. Though I made no claim, nor spoke its originality just how it was used as a hand wave to be dismissive.

It would be really neat to see where Eargon does badly in its plot and where other do better. That would be substantive discourse. Wankey hand waves is bull shitty. I dont have to read the book to comment on how it was being dismissed. I haven't been authoritative nor affirmative when I spoke to my tangential information on the novel.

[Renault]

The issue of the originality of the plot had arisen before. I promise its there, just a few screen inches down. In fact, the exact comparison to Star Wars had been made.  Thats all I was referring to. And true, it was rather a hand wave, but thats because its painfully obvious to anyone who had read it. Sort of like how "Charles Manson is insane" may be a hand-wave to end debate over his ideas, but its still acceptable because he is, in fact, insane. Eragons plot, likewise, is just patently awful. I know TvTropes is a satirical site, and I wouldnt quote them if not for the fact they are completely, 100 percent correct. That literally is the storyline.
I liked it. It was entertaining. But the plot is incredibly, terribly stale and the world tired. Thats all I was saying, my apologies if  worded it in a poor manner. I've been having a rather stressful week and I sort of Blacken'd out when I started typing.
Again, in short, the plot is bad. Thats the point to all this. Theres no need to examine the specific parts because they're all bad. It's just a bad plot.
Entertaining read, though.

[MrWiggles]

Heh. Yea, stress. I had my first job interview in months and had to turn it down because it was commission. Who is paying my dues, I can't ask of them to pay for me to go to work on the off chance I'll be self supporting from it. It just to expensive of a hobby.

[ChairmanPoo]

Ok, now that it's over, time for a derail.

I'm reading the "Tears of Artamon" saga, and I find Eugene of Tielen absolutedly hateful.

No really, I have the impression that the author was trying to pull a likeable antagonist, like GGK did in Tigana, but I haven't the slightest simpathy for this turd. He is a holier than thou expansionist a$$ who in no small measure is behind the troubles of the nations which he "generously incorporates into his empire". Besides, despite some decent public policies and being more of the "enlightened despot" pro-industry sort (in contrast to more feudalistic overlords), he is also guilty of pretty dirty war crimes, prisoner abuse, etc...
Add to that the fact that he is vindictive to the point of letting personal grievances influence his foreign policy, and that those personal grievances involve stuff like... defending oneself against him. As if all this wasn't enough, he's also likely a pedophile. There are some attempts by the author to make him more human and less dislikeable, but at this point my hatred of the guy is rather firm.

As a PD: it might well be that he is NOT supposed to be sympathethic, due to all the stated above, and the fact that his closest friend is his evil court wizard (whom so far is fiercely loyal, though. Quite surprising, I expected him to turn to be a Starscream the first time he showed up). It's just that since before reading the books I read the wikipedia synopsis and know that

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 at the end of the saga Eugene largely fulfills his expansionist dreams and the main character ends up as his governor in his home country -which is an improvement from being his tortured prisoner, but below being the ruler of said country, which he was before-

and thus groan everytime he shows up, because

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

he is utterly dislikeable and he most definitedly does not deserve karma insurance

[MrWiggles]

Interesting. Still though you gotta appreciate that the author was able to draw an emotional responce from you about the character. That no easy feat.

Thats why I recognize Kurt Vongurt as a good author. I absolutely detest the mans works. I've read two and hated both of them. I like several of the concepts and themes. I find them well written with interesting proses, but his novels piss me off something fierce. Gosh, I hated how Sirens of Titan ended so fucking much... *angry fist*. More so then the ending to the Hobbit where Tolkien cheated me personally and solely out of the war of the five armies. *shakes nother angry fist!*. Though I'm willing reread the Hobbit but burn Sirens of Titan for lolz.