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[Maximus]

Green glass is worth no more than stone right now, although it's far harder to produce and is far more exotic.  I'd like to suggest increasing the values for the glass types:

Green glass: x3
Clear glass: x7
Crystal glass: x15

thereabouts.

Edit: And, oh yeah, it'd be nice if you could make glass crafts at the glass furnace as well.

[ November 20, 2006: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[bbb]

you make the crafts randomly in the jeweller shop... keep cutting them glass

[Abyssal Squid]

Bear in mind that it's effectively free once you get to the magma flow.  I think the values are fine, just that rock crystals aren't nearly common enough for something that's only as valuable as silver.

[Maximus]

It's the green glass I have the biggest problem with.  Stone is equally free and found absolutely everywhere; glass is fairly hard to make, even if sand is unlimited.  The glass values need a little tweaking.

Silver, gold, and platinum are also way too abundant, but that's a different complaint.  I wouldn't want to see materials abundance change unless fey and noble demands are restricted to "what's already been found" -- but then I totally would agree with making platinum, etc. very rare.

[Draxxalon]

I'm not sure how you can consider green glass "fairly hard to make"

There's two steps:  Gather Sand, and make item.

1 - Gather Sand requires a bag.
2 - Making something out of glass needs only that bag full of sand. (some things may need multiple bags)

The only thing that prevents glass being to mass produced is the hauling time to get sand from the river to the magma, or the fuel consumed if you arent using magma and put the glass shop + sand stockpile by the river.

[grendel]

quote:Originally posted by Draxxalon:
<STRONG>The only thing that prevents glass being to mass produced is the hauling time to get sand from the river to the magma, or the fuel consumed if you arent using magma and put the glass shop + sand stockpile by the river.</STRONG>

But this is exactly why it is fairly hard to make (compared to, say, stone).

It takes a bag and two hauling jobs to get the sand to a stockpile and then someone needs to take the sand bag (which weighs an incredible 300 stones) all the way to the magma if you want to avoid burning wood for fuel.

On another note, even tin, of all things, has a value of two. I would think green glass would be nicer than tin.

[Aquillion]

Don't forget that eventually, people will be able to channel lava over to the river and build a magma glass furnace there.  Once that's in place, glass creation will be extremely fast.  And you can already use it for a wide variety of things, including almost anything you can do with stone or gems, several things you can do with wood, and numerous other unique things.

[Frugal]

Channeled lava can't be used by forges, sorry.

[grendel]

quote:Originally posted by Frugal:
<STRONG>Channeled lava can't be used by forges, sorry.</STRONG>

You should go back and read Aquillion's post.

[dav]

Even once it becomes functional to forge on channels, dwarves still have to dig all the way in, channel, floodgate, and lever.  In addition, you have to manage bags, full and empty.  Compared to digging away a stone, that's a bunch of work.

[Maximus]

Although you can make several items out of glass instead of stone, how often do you?  Do you have even 100 glass items in your fort?  I'll bet you have thousands of stone items.  Stone is trivial to produce; glass, not as much so.

Eventually putting the magma furnace near the river will speed things, but it'll still require extra time (Collect Sand) and materials (bags).  And stone is everywhere; sand is only at the rivers.

I'm kind of surprised this suggestion has met with such disagreement.  3x is not an outrageous multiplier.  I feel it'd be just about enough to make glass economically worthwhile.

As for the earlier suggestion of making glass crafts via cutting raw glass, that produces about 20 glass gems for each glass craft.  It's very roundabout.  You can already make glass toys, instruments, and goblets at the forge directly -- I don't see why not crafts.  In fact, I've seen several ancient glass artifacts at museums -- all crafts.

[ctrlfrk]

Im currently sitting on over 300 green glass gems (cut and uncut)
106 green glass instruments
350 green glass idols, amulets, scepters, crowns, rings, earrings and bracelets.
and an assortment of green glass furniture and large gems.

This is from one glassworker. (and the half dozen dedicated sand gatherers/haulers)

I think 2x is fine for an unlimited resource, especially now that the custom stockpiles let me bring the sand right next to the magma furnace.

As an aside, if you look at page 4 of the stocks screen there are 2 entries marked only as "items"
(Looks something like:

code:

skull totems
skulls
items
legwear
items
backpacks
etc.

)

You may want to fix this Toady.

[Maximus]

Hmm, okay, I stand corrected.  Going up against stone, though, I do think it needs at least 2x.  

Still, why'd you make all that glass?  Your fondness for glass bolts I can understand, but the other items?  Is glass in your thoughts and preferences?  

[Draxxalon]

It looks cool, and stands out from the rock.

(I also have a ton of the stuff, from only one producer)

[ctrlfrk]

I use green glass blocks to make stuff so it is easier to see where my buildings are.
I also like the
sand->raw green glass->cut green glass+random crafts->encrusted crafts
My gem cutters quickly became high-skilled, and i now have plenty of glass encrusted glass items to sell to people.
It was mainly for the legendary jeweler and glassmaker though
Green cabinets and boxes also stand out quite nicely.
btw coloured glass would be awesome...