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[shadenight123]

are you sure?
everytime i had weapons i could clearly see the four columns of damage-range-recharge time-fourth i can't recall.
and in construction, pressing the circled I gave another outlook on the components.
i foudn it fascinating not to know what a researc would do on the battlefield until tested out.
it was FUN! XD

[forsaken1111]

For example, there is some random chance that any planet will be hostile. That chance doesn't seem to change with how far the planet is from your homeworld. That means that human's (who travel on specific paths) can be stuck on their homeworld with their only node connection being to a hostile planet.

Yes, that is the nature of truly random maps. You can turn the random events off or down if you want but planet size/resources/habitability is always randomized. There is a tourney space scenario if you want where everything is exactly equal for all people.

One of the hostile planet types can have the swarm. The best way to kill the swarm is with point defense. The problem is that the technology tree is also random. There is a chance you won't get point defense at all (I think). The worst part is that you don't even know if you will get a technology untill you research all the pre-reqs.

Yes, so you'd have to use a slightly less effective method of killing the swarm... You can still do it. I've taken out swarm colonies before without having PD tech, it just helps. Also phaser PD isn't affected by your chance at getting PD tech so you might roll that one.

I understand and somewhat enjoy the "not sure what comes next" of the tech tree, but it makes getting into the game almost impossible. I've played 10 hours and only just realized that FTL Ecnomics (a huge important technology that enables trade) comes after an unimportant technology I never bothered to research.

Well now you know for next time, I guess? You're complaining that you didn't know important technologies could be further up the tech tree beyond a seemingly unimportant one?

Finally, there is a complete lack of presented information. Some times technologies will give you a new weapon but won't give you the stats on the weapons.

What? Any tech that grants a weapon should have a stat card showing the weapon's stats...

When the wiki is down (and it is regularly) there is almost no way to get information on the game.

Wiki is down because it's being hammered by people who just bought SOTS2. You could always play to figure stuff out, or ask here or whatever.

It seems like you don't like:

1. The random nature of the game.
2. The fact that you don't already know everything about it.

1 is an intentional decision on the dev's part, not a lack of testing. They wanted the game to be different each playthrough. You can turn the random events off if you don't like them, and there are ways to make the tech tree nonrandom as well. I believe you just have to modify some text files. The game was made with multiplayer in mind though, and the randomness keeps it fresh and interesting. You cannot always follow the optimal tech path and you will have to deal with obstacles in your way as you expand due to random encounters/events. This is part of the challenge.

I can help you with 2 but only if you ask questions.

[Metalax]

One of the hostile planet types can have the swarm. The best way to kill the swarm is with point defense. The problem is that the technology tree is also random. There is a chance you won't get point defense at all (I think). The worst part is that you don't even know if you will get a technology untill you research all the pre-reqs.

Yes, so you'd have to use a slightly less effective method of killing the swarm... You can still do it. I've taken out swarm colonies before without having PD tech, it just helps. Also phaser PD isn't affected by your chance at getting PD tech so you might roll that one.

You can also roll for point defence missiles which are also unaffected by rolling/failing to roll normal point defence tech.

Finally, there is a complete lack of presented information. Some times technologies will give you a new weapon but won't give you the stats on the weapons.

What? Any tech that grants a weapon should have a stat card showing the weapon's stats...

They all do, though the card is not always particularly helpful in comparing the actual difference in effectivness of each weapon.

[Smitehappy]

You know a good early counter to the swarm? Tankers. Just ram one down the Queens/Hives throat (escorted by an Armor Destroyer or two to catch the swarm's fire) and watch the fireworks.

[shadenight123]

You know a good early counter to the swarm? Tankers. Just ram one down the Queens/Hives throat (escorted by an Armor Destroyer or two to catch the swarm's fire) and watch the fireworks.

oh yes. i discovered that by chance and must say: it's pure gold.
you know what a bang a refinery goes when it's hit?! XD BUUUUUM

[Sergius]

You know a good early counter to the swarm? Tankers. Just ram one down the Queens/Hives throat (escorted by an Armor Destroyer or two to catch the swarm's fire) and watch the fireworks.

So THAT's why my tankers always won vs. swarms when I pressed autocombat...

OTOH they always succeed at capturing asteroid or derelicts, I think.

[sneakey pete]

100% chance to research the point defense tech for all races to the best of my memory.

[Orb]

100% chance to research the point defense tech for all races to the best of my memory.

Zuul has a 75%, I'm pretty sure.

[Fikes]

The actual gun I ran into that did not have a 4 stat card was the "Armor piercing rounds", which turns out to be a gun instead of rounds.

For example, there is some random chance that any planet will be hostile. That chance doesn't seem to change with how far the planet is from your homeworld. That means that human's (who travel on specific paths) can be stuck on their homeworld with their only node connection being to a hostile planet.

Yes, that is the nature of truly random maps. You can turn the random events off or down if you want but planet size/resources/habitability is always randomized. There is a tourney space scenario if you want where everything is exactly equal for all people.

One of the hostile planet types can have the swarm. The best way to kill the swarm is with point defense. The problem is that the technology tree is also random. There is a chance you won't get point defense at all (I think). The worst part is that you don't even know if you will get a technology untill you research all the pre-reqs.

Yes, so you'd have to use a slightly less effective method of killing the swarm... You can still do it. I've taken out swarm colonies before without having PD tech, it just helps. Also phaser PD isn't affected by your chance at getting PD tech so you might roll that one.

I have nothing against random maps, I take exception with poor random map generation, which is what I feel SOTS has. Running into swarm on the only planet you have access to is broken.

I understand and somewhat enjoy the "not sure what comes next" of the tech tree, but it makes getting into the game almost impossible. I've played 10 hours and only just realized that FTL Ecnomics (a huge important technology that enables trade) comes after an unimportant technology I never bothered to research.

Well now you know for next time, I guess? You're complaining that you didn't know important technologies could be further up the tech tree beyond a seemingly unimportant one?

Yes. I have at least 10 hours logged in the game and I am litterally figuring out BASIC information from the WIKI. The only way to learn what techs are in the game is to play it a dozen times and hope you hit every tree or read the wiki.

This same exact thing happened with tankers. I had a fleet of cruisers supported by 35 destoryer tankers because I didn't know that a refinery served that purpose. It is never stated in the game.

Finally, there is a complete lack of presented information. Some times technologies will give you a new weapon but won't give you the stats on the weapons.

What? Any tech that grants a weapon should have a stat card showing the weapon's stats...

Complete lack was a stupid thing to say. What I mean is clicking on a tech or a race gives you more backstory than information about what it does. Most guns do have a card, yes, but a lot of other technologies lack information. I still can't figure out how to get drones to fight in combat. I don't have an easy way to tell what the purpose of ship sections are. I can't figure out the prereqresits for anything....

When the wiki is down (and it is regularly) there is almost no way to get information on the game.

Wiki is down because it's being hammered by people who just bought SOTS2. You could always play to figure stuff out, or ask here or whatever.

Everyone who bought the game is forced to go to the wiki, not for stragety or builds, but basic, simple information. I can play to figure stuff out, but I may not ever know there is point defense because I didn't roll it the first time I got VRF techs.

It seems like you don't like:

1. The random nature of the game.
2. The fact that you don't already know everything about it.

1 is an intentional decision on the dev's part, not a lack of testing. They wanted the game to be different each playthrough. You can turn the random events off if you don't like them, and there are ways to make the tech tree nonrandom as well. I believe you just have to modify some text files. The game was made with multiplayer in mind though, and the randomness keeps it fresh and interesting. You cannot always follow the optimal tech path and you will have to deal with obstacles in your way as you expand due to random encounters/events. This is part of the challenge.

I can help you with 2 but only if you ask questions.

I think in general my problem is that we have no exposure to the mechanics. Even a simple system that said "Hey, you saw the aliens had access to this tech, here is where it would be on the tech tree, even though you can't access it" would go a long ways to making your first few games a learning expereince.

[forsaken1111]

I have nothing against random maps, I take exception with poor random map generation, which is what I feel SOTS has. Running into swarm on the only planet you have access to is broken.

This statement is illogical. Random maps are random. They are not weighted for fair play, they are random. You might end up in an area with no habitable planets, or surrounded by alien derelicts. Deal with it or turn the random encounters off.

Yes. I have at least 10 hours logged in the game and I am litterally figuring out BASIC information from the WIKI. The only way to learn what techs are in the game is to play it a dozen times and hope you hit every tree or read the wiki.

This same exact thing happened with tankers. I had a fleet of cruisers supported by 35 destoryer tankers because I didn't know that a refinery served that purpose. It is never stated in the game.

Really? I mean I guess I've been playing a while but I never looked at the Wiki personally. And refineries are explained ingame if you click the circled "i" information button on the design screen. It tells you what every section does.

Complete lack was a stupid thing to say. What I mean is clicking on a tech or a race gives you more backstory than information about what it does. Most guns do have a card, yes, but a lot of other technologies lack information. I still can't figure out how to get drones to fight in combat. I don't have an easy way to tell what the purpose of ship sections are. I can't figure out the prereqresits for anything....

Drones should launch when the ship they're on attacks another ship. It happens automatically... if you're using assault shuttles just click the picture of the shuttle on the combat screen when you have the ships selected and they will all launch their shuttles. Drones are 100% autonomous, they attack the target of the mothership and return to refuel/rearm on their own.

Everyone who bought the game is forced to go to the wiki, not for stragety or builds, but basic, simple information. I can play to figure stuff out, but I may not ever know there is point defense because I didn't roll it the first time I got VRF techs.

Again, I never even used the wiki so I guess I don't know what you mean. I learned these things by playing and replaying the game. Sorry you're not enjoying it... people have made full tech tree diagrams though. One of the first on a google search was this one: Diagram It even links back to the wiki, assuming it is up.

I think in general my problem is that we have no exposure to the mechanics. Even a simple system that said "Hey, you saw the aliens had access to this tech, here is where it would be on the tech tree, even though you can't access it" would go a long ways to making your first few games a learning expereince.

Well you can see visible technologies used in battles on the battle reports and if you research data correlation it will track known designations and observed weapon load-outs for enemies as well as observed ship locations. There are also techs to let you map out zuul and human node lines, and a tech that integrates all your ship's sensors on the sensor manager as well as one which allows you to give orders from the sensor manager.

[Flare]

I have nothing against random maps, I take exception with poor random map generation, which is what I feel SOTS has. Running into swarm on the only planet you have access to is broken.

Unforgiving might be a better term than broken, it is different in terms of degree not in kind. I've had this happen to me in the first game as well, though by that time I had come to appreciated the elements in the game to overcome it.

But above all, remember. You're a DF player. You've played DF. You've dealt with cataclysm and incomprehensible disaster before. Your tolerance for this type of cataclysmic randomness should be higher than your average high-school CoD player, not to mention your ability to find a way past this sort of thing .

[nenjin]

Got intrigued by reading through the thread. How does SotS 1 complete stack up against Gal Civ 2 complete? Because I really liked Gal Civ 2 up until the end when I realized how shallow it ultimately was. Is SotS 1 complete worth the $20 it's going for on Steam?

[forsaken1111]

Got intrigued by reading through the thread. How does SotS 1 complete stack up against Gal Civ 2 complete? Because I really liked Gal Civ 2 up until the end when I realized how shallow it ultimately was. Is SotS 1 complete worth the $20 it's going for on Steam?

SOTS1 complete is worth $20 yes. You won't regret buying it, honestly.

I am a pretty picky gamer and I have over 200 hours racked up on SOTS1

[Comp112]

oh the hours us DFC guys racked up those couple of months ago...

[Fikes]

I'd say SOTS 1 is easly worth $10, $15 would be okay, and $20 would be a little steep, but probably fair. The game play and game design make me want to play the game more, but the UI and some design decisions make me want to uninstall.

Personally I really disliked GalCiv. It had the same kind of lack of information problem as SOTS but on a much larger scale. There were like 8 different buildings you could build on your planets but it was really hard to tell what they did and I constantly got the idea I was building the wrong one.

If you liked GalCiv or MOO, you'll probably like SOTS.