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[forsaken1111]

Human destroyers are crewed by 3 people and IIRC are about 30m long... they aren't capital ships.

[Journier]

SotS is more of an early 20th century flavor, hence usage of the term Dreadnought. Destroyers are far from capital ships.

Oh yea, totally, since almost every SCI FI 4x has dreadnoughts in it that i can think of right now, as some kind of super powerful ship. which a dreadnought by ww2 was lulz. WW1 sure. dreadnoughts were the king of the sea's. But WW2 dreadnoughts were over with compared to modern Battleships. etc etc.

What simply happens is people or companies misuse names that sound cool from history, IE Dreadnought. "holy shit dude, it makes the enemy dread us aww yaaa, this things gonna be super god powerful"

and it gets used, I sorta hate it, actually i really hate it. but whatever.

but maybe SOTS has a WW1 feel to it.

[Krelian]

Human destroyers are crewed by 3 people and IIRC are about 30m long... they aren't capital ships.

wha... ? where did you saw that information? (about the 3 people per destroyer)

[Flare]

http://sots.rorschach.net/Dreadnoughts
Human crew: 800-1000

http://sots.rorschach.net/Destroyers
Human Crew: 15-30
Liir Crew: 3-8

http://sots.rorschach.net/Cruiser
Human Crew: ~150

Is he confusing human and liir crews here?

[forsaken1111]

Human destroyers are crewed by 3 people and IIRC are about 30m long... they aren't capital ships.

wha... ? where did you saw that information? (about the 3 people per destroyer)

A while back on the forums I remember a dev commenting on this, saying that destroyers generally had 3-5 people crewing the ship at any one time.

http://sots.rorschach.net/Destroyers
Human Crew: 15-30
Liir Crew: 3-8

Is he confusing human and liir crews here?

No, I'm not; though I may have misspoke. The comment I'm recalling (which I cannot now find, it was a long time ago) said there were generally 3-5 people on duty with a destroyer. Obviously that would necessitate at least 3 shifts, hence 15 or more people depending on how many support staff are needed. Still, they're tiny ships and not anything like a naval destroyer which can have hundreds of people. I mean, it's 30 meters long... that's the length of two F-16's. Squeezing up to 30 people in there must be an amazing feat of engineering.

[Krelian]

german U-boats of ww2 used to be arround 65 mts long and had a crew of arround 50 men.Thats in average like 1,3 Mts for each man. So the 15-20  sound quite good IMO

Also, I can see SotS spaceships quite similar to submarines (specially the destroyers), as they need rougtly the same type of life suport, similar shape, etc.

In a related topic, a typical Human ship; Hammerhead+Armor+Fission, with the 20 crew, have this load out:
9 Small Mounts
1 Medium Mount
That's 10 gunners. Plus you have a captain, a navigator, and still have people for the rest of functions.

Instead, if said ship had only 3 men as a crew, there is certainly something wrong here. BTW, only with an AI Section the weapons fire on their own, so its not that the answer

[forsaken1111]

Eh, I'm not really interested in arguing about whether it's realistic or not, my point was that a ~20-man ship barely longer than 2 fighter jets is not a capital ship.

[Sean Mirrsen]

That depends. The overwhelming majority of crew on a modern naval ship is support personnel. The kind that prepare food, mop the floors, service the weapons, etc, etc. Plus a lot of command staff. If all those were stripped to leave only the essential bridge crew, gunners, and a few engineers, you'd end up with a very similar figure for a typical Frigate or Destroyer. On the SolForce ships, power systems need little maintenance, guns need one person per turret, and bridge crew consists of the captain, pilot, navigator, and comms officer, at least on the smaller ships. So, a 20-person Capital ship is perfectly fine.

Apart from that, I suppose I can concede the point that a Destroyer in a modern navy is not really a capital ship (anymore, at least), mostly because the term is relative. When all you have is PT boats and corvettes, a Destroyer may well be your flagship; but when you've got nuclear missile cruisers patrolling seas as a pirate deterrent, the humble destroyer is just a dinky little escort ship. In SotS, the Destroyer, by a ludicrous mangling of naming conventions, became the smallest ship class possible, so they really can't be considered Capital in any shape or form. Btw, I should consider modding this game. It really, really needs a better ship classification system. What they got as the destroyer is a frigate at best, but more like a corvette actually. The cruisers seem about right by comparison, but are reached too damn quickly and function pretty much like the workhorses of the fleets, instead of the heavy-hitting spearhead needing escort by just about anything.

(btw, a game I know did better than this. It had "light cruisers" instead of destroyers, because a "destroyer" in russian is a "squadron minelayer", and no frigates as such, but the "small big attack ship" role was called a "corvette". This "corvette", with proper technological backing, had essentially only a third of the firepower of a Heavy Cruiser - it could mount at least one of the largest weapons in the game, and generally had enough smaller turret mounts to mildly inconvenience a Dreadnaut with a sudden nuclear MIRV swarm.)

[Krelian]

Im currently playing with one called 'Foraven re-balance mod' (FRB).

It doesnt change the game that much, but there are some key changes that I liked, but still seemed like to little.

The Fusion Power  and Antimatter power tech takes much longer to research.... but still too little IMO. Also, I think its too easy to access cruisers, destroyers are almost not used as a result. Cruisers maybe should require fussion, and dreadnoughts antimatter.

Also, we need Doomstars (ala MOO2) sooo badly xD. The flagship just isnt that special. Flashship seccion should be really something, like x3 of the power (and maybe size) of a vanilla dreadnougt.

[forsaken1111]

Doesn't the flagship section already give you a C&C functionality without the low armor/hp of a normal C&C?

[Krelian]

yes, but it is not a doomstar!

[Sean Mirrsen]

The Flagship section is already the single most powerful section. For the humans at least, there is no section stronger than it weapons-wise save maybe Projectors due to the nature of those weapons, and no section save Shields that provides a better defense.

This is taken direct from the Rorschach wiki:

Flagship section: 18000 HP, 18 small, 6 medium, 5 large, 8 beam mounts.

Armada CnC: 10000 HP, 18 small, 8 medium, 1 large mount. (no contest)
Armor section: 12000 HP, 10 small, 12 medium, 3 large mounts. (weaker in every way save medium mounts)
Barrage section: 13000 HP, 0 small, 6 medium, 4 large(missile only), 3 torpedo, 8 beam mounts. (close, but missile-only mounts limit usefulness)
Blazer section: 12000 HP, 0 small, 6 medium, 0 large, 11 beam mounts (no contest, 5 large turrets vs 3 extra beams)
Heavy COL: 12000 HP, 4 small, 6 medium, 4 large, 3 COL mounts (may be stronger in alphastrike with proper COLs, but reload's too long)
War section: 7000 HP (WHAT?), 6 small, 0 medium, 5 large, 8 beam mounts (you frikkin kidding me?)
Projector section: 12000 HP, 10 small, 12 medium, 0 large, 3 projector mounts (5 large and 8 beam mounts for 3 projectors and 6 mediums... questionable trade, otherwise neat)

There's also speed differences of course (CnC are usually slower), but those are mostly natural. After all, you don't want your flagship to be the damage soak for the enemy's first attack, right?

So, there you have it. The Flagship has the most CPs of every other command option in the game, and considerably more firepower and armor to boot. Not quite a battlestar yet (that honor goes to the Morrigi flagship, which also mounts a wing of drones), but already quite formidable. Now couple this with the Electronic Warfare command section...

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Huh... For some reason I don't remember ever getting Flagship CnC, and I played Morrigi the most.  I suppose I should get back into SotS....  If I can ever tear myself away from Hazeron.

[Lightning4]

I'd say the Zuul are a contender too. Their flagship, disturbingly enough, has the highest HP of any other flagship section. Boarding pods for some fun times, and once you add in the Zuul command point bonus, you've got some fun indeed.

I guess it doesn't mean much if they don't roll (or steal) high armor tech though. That's what really makes flagships shine.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Huh... For some reason I don't remember ever getting Flagship CnC, and I played Morrigi the most.  I suppose I should get back into SotS....  If I can ever tear myself away from Hazeron.

The Flagship section is a bit of an odd thing for Morrigi. With the way their ships are, you sometimes don't want, or don't need to research heavy beams - you get rather good mileage out of common beams on large mounts, and their wide design doesn't really lend itself well to good blazer ships. But the Flagship section requires the Heavy Beams. If you don't have them, then even if you research the Flagship CnC tech (right after Armada CnC), you won't get the section itself.

Btw, I absolutely LOVE Morrigi dreadnaughts. Dreadnaughty ships, those are. With a vertical profile, they can focus about 80% of their weaponry on any given target in front of them, and they are pretty quick to spin around. As a result, heavy beams are nothing but extras on a Morrigi 'naut, you get way better firepower with a Heavy COL section and some good Large weapons.

Btw btw, once I saw a human AI dreadnaught with some sort of Galleon-style broadside-facing heavy beams. WTF was that thing? I don't think I saw it on the wiki... maybe I didn't search well enough.