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Author Topic: I fail at maths, a LOT  (Read 3947 times)

Osmosis Jones

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2010, 02:34:17 am »

A point of inflection is the point at which the second derivative of the curve is equal to 0. So, diff twice, and set equal to zero. For your example, that's

y = (x - a)3 + k
y' = 3(x - a)2
y" = 6x-6a = 0

:. x = a, and substitute x into the original equation to get the y value. For a problem this simple, that's just k.


Edit; looking at that problem of course, you can instantly see that x must be a without any working out (though you should always show working);
It's a cubic, which is a simple non-repeating function with only ever 1 point of inflection. Furthermore, the only x term is the (x-a), which mean all significant points (turning/inflection) occur at the same place; x=a.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 02:43:33 am by Osmosis Jones »
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Red Fortune

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2010, 03:29:17 am »

WAIT, SORRY. I FAILED.

I meant WITHOUT T.P. form... As in, say... (x-3)(x+2)(x+4)

And I don't know calculus D:
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Virex

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2010, 07:19:03 am »

To be honest, I don't even know how to find an inflection point without calculus any more...
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Red Fortune

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2010, 07:39:14 am »

 :-\
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2010, 07:57:48 am »

WAIT, SORRY. I FAILED.

I meant WITHOUT T.P. form... As in, say... (x-3)(x+2)(x+4)

And I don't know calculus D:

Then why are you looking at inflection points? Points of inflection are pretty much meaningless without talking about derivatives.

Honestly, at this level all you'll need to know is the first rule of differentiation;

if y = a.xn
:. y' = n.a.xn-1
 and if there is no x at all, the term vanishes. (This also works with inverses, the power n just becomes negative is all)

Where you're diff. y w.r.t. x.

So, with the example you gave me, the easiest way to deal with it is expand out the brackets;

So,
(x-3)(x+4)(x+2)

goes to

(x2-x-6)(x+4)

and then to

y = x3 + 3x2 -10x -24

Then just differentiate through.

So for the first term, x3 goes to 3x2, and by identical method for the rest, we get

y' = 3x2 + 6x -10. 

You'll notice the last term has dropped off; there was no x, so its derivative is 0.

Then you just do it again;

y" = 6x + 6

Then we set it equal to 0.*

Solving for x gives us x = -1.


HUZZAH!


Honestly man, don't stress too much about maths. In high school, I used to hate it, I'd average 65%, 70% if I really tried. When I got to uni though, it was explained differently, and the whole thing clicked. I jumped up to an average maths grade of 90%, and learned to love it.

So if you're struggling with it, don't worry. Keep at it, DO NOT STRESS, and eventually some little switch in your head will flick, and you'll be kicking yourself over how easy it all is.


*I should note at this point that while the inflection point always occurs at y" = 0, it's not always an inflection point when y" = 0. I.e. if it's an even powered polynomial (x4 for example) the second derivative may touch y" = 0, but then curve away again without crossing. Basically, look for where the gradient in the original function y goes from curving up to curving down or vice versa.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 08:13:23 am by Osmosis Jones »
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Shades

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2010, 08:08:22 am »

y" = 6x - 6

Then we set it equal to 0.*

Solving for x gives us x = -1.

Doesn't it go y" = 6x - 6 = 0 so 6x = 6 so x = 1?
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2010, 08:11:51 am »

Whups :P Good catch.

The number of times minus signs have caught me out... still, that's why you should always double check.

(The final answer was right, there just shouldn't of been a minus in the line
y"= 6x + 6)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 08:14:29 am by Osmosis Jones »
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Red Fortune

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2010, 03:41:51 pm »

D: That is... Interesting...

I'll have to have a go at calculus.
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Vector

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2010, 03:45:19 pm »

D: That is... Interesting...

I'll have to have a go at calculus.

Dude, do you not know how to put it in the form you need?  You obviously don't need calculus, if they're asking you how to solve the problem in question without knowledge of it.

Hint: complete the square.
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Red Fortune

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2010, 03:46:54 pm »

*Shoots self in the face for being retarded*

You're right.   :-\
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Red Fortune

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2010, 03:50:16 pm »

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Now I know how I was meant to do them! How the fuck was I so stupid?!

This is why I don't want to do Specialist Mathematics next year...
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Vector

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2010, 03:58:51 pm »

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Now I know how I was meant to do them! How the fuck was I so stupid?!

This is why I don't want to do Specialist Mathematics next year...

... It's okay, doodabuddy.  Other than being able to do computations 4x faster than most students, I was pretty near the bottom of my class in mathematics throughout high school.  Just needs motivation and a hell of a lot of practice.
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Red Fortune

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2010, 04:04:00 pm »

... It's okay, doodabuddy.  Other than being able to do computations 4x faster than most students, I was pretty near the bottom of my class in mathematics throughout high school.  Just needs motivation and a hell of a lot of practice.
Well, the fact that I haven't practiced much and that my brain works like a snail leads me to be in a similar situation... I do really badly under the often 30 minute time restraints on math tests... I just cannot work everything out in that time.

It just frustrates me so much, and I hate math tests because of it, because I know I'll be tearing my hair out afterwards like I am now.

At least I think I passed...
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Vector

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2010, 04:09:27 pm »

Well, the fact that I haven't practiced much and that my brain works like a snail leads me to be in a similar situation... I do really badly under the often 30 minute time restraints on math tests... I just cannot work everything out in that time.

It just frustrates me so much, and I hate math tests because of it, because I know I'll be tearing my hair out afterwards like I am now.

At least I think I passed...

Hmm... Well, I'll have some study/test-taking advice for everyone later, but I'm going to have to reread the posts here and think about it some.  I'll see what I can put together.
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Red Fortune

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Re: I fail at maths, a LOT
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2010, 04:14:10 pm »

Sure thing, looking forward to it.  :)

Hopefully I can have a look when I get back from school (Holy crap the first week back went fast)
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