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Author Topic: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!  (Read 232328 times)

RedKing

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2595 on: May 12, 2014, 10:47:12 am »

This is how I felt giving my grandfather's eulogy. Held it together, did my job with strength and dignity (and apparently the eulogy I wrote was good enough that people asked for copies of it).

Then after I got home, I just fell apart.
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Haspen

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2596 on: May 12, 2014, 10:49:02 am »

Same at my grandma's funeral. I was my (numerous) cousin's pat-on-back and cry-shoulder, but right after we left cementery and I got to my parent's car, I broke into tears.

But sometimes you just gotta keep it together for the sake of other people :c
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miauw62

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2597 on: May 12, 2014, 11:41:39 am »

Stop hitting me in the feels, Tom ;-;
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2598 on: May 12, 2014, 11:58:39 am »

Something just occurred to me. Why don't they have Jones deal with Jeanne? I mean, she can't be killed.

Jeanne could use her ghostly slice-and-dice all she wants, and Jones would still be there with her "I am not impressed" look.
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Bauglir

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2599 on: May 12, 2014, 12:01:38 pm »

Hmm... She may have refused for noninterference reasons, or her inability to interact with the aether means that she could only interfere with the physical device, which they may not know how to deal with.
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Haspen

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2600 on: May 12, 2014, 12:05:31 pm »

I have this feeling that getting rid of Jeanne will dramatically close the rift of Annan waters, allowing the Forest dwellers to launch an attack/invasion or something onto the Gunnerkrigg Court to get rid of its disgusting experiments with ether and such stuff, and because Jones is employed by the Court it means she has the duty of protecting it also; that's why she won't fight Jeanne :v

Of course I might be just paranoid.
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hops

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2601 on: May 13, 2014, 04:55:26 am »

Yeah, Jones and Jeanne are in opposite state of being. Jones is a body without spirit, and Jeanne is a spirit without body. I think they'll probably go right through each other.

That or they fuse into a rampaging invincible Jeannesy of doom.
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lemon10

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2602 on: May 13, 2014, 07:12:58 am »

Something just occurred to me. Why don't they have Jones deal with Jeanne? I mean, she can't be killed.

Jeanne could use her ghostly slice-and-dice all she wants, and Jones would still be there with her "I am not impressed" look.
We haven't seen the court attempt to get rid of Jeanne yet, presumably because they put her there to stop stuff from getting through from the Forest. And since Jones is loyal to the court, I don't think that she would intervene in this matter unless they wanted her to.

Yeah, Jones and Jeanne are in opposite state of being. Jones is a body without spirit, and Jeanne is a spirit without body. I think they'll probably go right through each other.
Even if this is true, it wouldn't matter. The court could easily give her some kind of weapon capable of banishing Jeanne, which in the hands of an immortal would make it a trivial task.
That said, I don't think it is true. She can see ethereal things (eg. psycopomps), and I suspect that she can physically affect them too. Otherwise things would be able to pass through her body, and I get the feeling (note that I don't have any source on this at all) that she is far too solid for anything of any kind to pass through her skin.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2603 on: May 13, 2014, 05:51:30 pm »

Could they make a weapon that could banish Jeanne, though? They made the magic arrow that trapped her soul, but most of the people who made that are probably dead by now, even saying they could make something that does the reverse. Maybe it 's like a bomb: once it's exploded, you can't very well unexplode it.

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smjjames

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2604 on: May 13, 2014, 06:00:50 pm »

Something just occurred to me. Why don't they have Jones deal with Jeanne? I mean, she can't be killed.

Jeanne could use her ghostly slice-and-dice all she wants, and Jones would still be there with her "I am not impressed" look.
We haven't seen the court attempt to get rid of Jeanne yet, presumably because they put her there to stop stuff from getting through from the Forest. And since Jones is loyal to the court, I don't think that she would intervene in this matter unless they wanted her to.

Yeah, Jones and Jeanne are in opposite state of being. Jones is a body without spirit, and Jeanne is a spirit without body. I think they'll probably go right through each other.
Even if this is true, it wouldn't matter. The court could easily give her some kind of weapon capable of banishing Jeanne, which in the hands of an immortal would make it a trivial task.
That said, I don't think it is true. She can see ethereal things (eg. psycopomps), and I suspect that she can physically affect them too. Otherwise things would be able to pass through her body, and I get the feeling (note that I don't have any source on this at all) that she is far too solid for anything of any kind to pass through her skin.

The reason why the court hasn't tried to fix it is because the founders and other people involved in it erased all information that she existed, or so they thought. Even though Diego managed to keep that shrine with the painting hidden and theres that camerabot, all public records of Jeanne were destroyed and the knowledge of the arrow thing died with the founders. Diego could have kept notes somewhere though.....

Also, Jones could very well be a body with a spirit, just not a human spirit.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 06:02:59 pm by smjjames »
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lemon10

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2605 on: May 13, 2014, 06:31:43 pm »

Could they make a weapon that could banish Jeanne, though? They made the magic arrow that trapped her soul, but most of the people who made that are probably dead by now, even saying they could make something that does the reverse. Maybe it 's like a bomb: once it's exploded, you can't very well unexplode it.
We haven't seen anything that the court can really do. While I have gotten the impression that the court is rather abandoned, I don't think that they have really lost their technical prowess at all (as you can see from the ethereal experiments they have been doing), although they may have lost their more direct magical knowledge.

The series has shown pretty clearly that besides Jones, everything can die. I suspect that even Coyote can be killed (although it would require god level weapons/enemies and him badly failing in one of his tricks). I don't see any reason Jeanne would be any different. While it might not be possible to reverse the process and banish her (although I think it would be possible (even if the court can no longer manage it)), killing her soul shouldn't provide much challenge to a appropriately armed Jones.

I don't think it would really be all that hard to make a weapon that could kill her either since she just appears to be a super-ghost (and that's discounting the fact that the court has probably accumulated some pretty powerful artifacts over the years). Actually being able to beat Jeanne would be tough without Jones (although I have very little doubt they could eventually manage it since Jeanne is unable to leave the canyon), but I have little doubt that Jones far outclasses her due to the whole "perfectly invulnerable" thing she has going on.

The reason why the court hasn't tried to fix it is because the founders and other people involved in it erased all information that she existed, or so they thought. Even though Diego managed to keep that shrine with the painting hidden and theres that camerabot, all public records of Jeanne were destroyed and the knowledge of the arrow thing died with the founders. Diego could have kept notes somewhere though.....

Also, Jones could very well be a body with a spirit, just not a human spirit.
All public record. I suspect that the headmaster knows exactly what Jeanne is and does, even if he doesn't know her origin. As you said, it doesn't seem that despite the efforts they made that all the information was erased.

I believe that the headmaster of the court knows about Jeanne (although he doesn't know about the kids attempt to kill her), and that Coyote gave them his tooth in an attempt to get them to kill Jeanne (but in such a roundabout way as to be able to deny that it was his plan to kill her (as well as the fact that she might be dangerous even to him)).

Note that there are a lot of suppositions of my own, quite a lot of what I said isn't actually backed up by any hard evidence.

E: We haven't seen anyone beside the teachers and members of the school staff (who indeed are rather lacking in knowledge as far as we can tell), but there rather obviously has to be others living there (eg. to run the ethereal experiments), and we have no clue what skills/knowledge they possess.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 06:35:34 pm by lemon10 »
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Culise

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2606 on: May 13, 2014, 06:39:25 pm »

It would make sense to keep someone in the senior hierarchy of the Court in the loop, though, even if it's only imperfect knowledge (say, "Jeanne is a guardian created to protect the Court" instead of "we imprisoned a human soul").  I mean, can you imagine if a student fell down the ravine and was killed by Jeanne, as could have happened to Annie had it not been for Kat's intervention?  If no one at the Court remembered Jeanne or her purpose, that could result in the Court blaming the Forest for the fatality (not a major issue, as far as the founders were concerned) and putting their considerable resources to work on freeing/removing Jeanne (a bit more of an issue).  Coyote would barely even need to manipulate the situation at all, though he probably would just to keep a paw in. 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 06:40:59 pm by Culise »
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2607 on: May 13, 2014, 07:10:45 pm »

I wonder how powerful Jones really is, though? She's got impossible durability and incredible strength.

Jones says she could take Annie from Coyote if she had to, suggesting she believes herself more powerful.

But Eglamore said he had a chance to beat Jones if they had been outside. How? Swords bounce off her face. It's not like he could pin or grapple her due to her overwhelming strength. There's obviously something we don't know that would allow Eglamore to fight her fairly, and with Jeanne being more like Eglamore than Coyote, presumably she might have that unknown capability herself.
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lemon10

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2608 on: May 13, 2014, 07:28:56 pm »

I wonder how powerful Jones really is, though? She's got impossible durability and incredible strength.

Jones says she could take Annie from Coyote if she had to, suggesting she believes herself more powerful.

But Eglamore said he had a chance to beat Jones if they had been outside. How? Swords bounce off her face. It's not like he could pin or grapple her due to her overwhelming strength. There's obviously something we don't know that would allow Eglamore to fight her fairly, and with Jeanne being more like Eglamore than Coyote, presumably she might have that unknown capability herself.
Jones is pretty much unstoppable, Coyote didn't really have any way to keep Annie. He could have grabbed her and ran, but even that wouldn't last very long (as long as he stayed within the forest that is) since Jones would just keep chasing him.
Assuming that Coyote stayed to fight her (which he wouldn't, because he knows it would be pointless), there is no way for him to actually harm her, whereas she could conceivably harm him.
That said, the wording on that page is important. It isn't "I would beat you in a fight", but rather "You can't keep the girl if I choose to take her". I imagine things would also be the other way around. I don't think Jones would be able to keep a hold on her if Coyote was determined to steal her away.

Given what we know about Jones, I can't think of anything Elgamore could actually do besides run and attack (futilely) at a distance. Note that he says he would lose terribly indoors, not that he had a actual chance of winning if they fought outside (although he would lose far less badly).

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« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 07:35:56 pm by lemon10 »
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And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.

Zangi

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court: Confusion, confusion everywhere!
« Reply #2609 on: May 14, 2014, 08:07:37 am »

But Eglamore said he had a chance to beat Jones if they had been outside. How? Swords bounce off her face. It's not like he could pin or grapple her due to her overwhelming strength. There's obviously something we don't know that would allow Eglamore to fight her fairly, and with Jeanne being more like Eglamore than Coyote, presumably she might have that unknown capability herself.
Victory in a fight can be considered a moving goalpost... Eglamore probably ain't going to fight her fairly, if they are actually for real fighting and stopping her from completing her objective, even for a time may just be the victory condition.
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