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[Deathworks]

Hi!

Actually, what is this about the wood blackmailing? I have heard mention of those quotas before, but I never got confronted with something like that myself. And I regularly cut every single tree on my map as I usually heavily rely on wood blocks and charcoal. Is there a population minimum to get that?

Deathworks

[Jake]

Actually, what is this about the wood blackmailing? I have heard mention of those quotas before, but I never got confronted with something like that myself. And I regularly cut every single tree on my map as I usually heavily rely on wood blocks and charcoal. Is there a population minimum to get that?

It was based on the quantity of wood you've got in your stockpile rather than the number of trees you cut down, so you'd sometimes get this message even when you were on a completely treeless map. This may or may not have been fixed in the new version, but I never ran up against it because I tried to stay on their good side; I never could successfully balance the needs of cloth and booze production, and clothing is usually my biggest export after stoneware.

[Doomshifter]

grizzly berries? huh.

Very angry berries. Territorial and make great jam.

[Doomshifter]

-technical stuff-

Thanks Darius, I'm trying this now. Those damn aquifers won't keep me from striking the earth now! BWAHAHA.

Also, I just watched a racoon run away with an elf's underwear. I assume said elf was wearing it at the time. I was highly amused.

[Deon]

By the way, I do not hate elves, at least now. I feel really sorry for them. Their wooden arrows bounce off rope reed cloaks, and their wooden swords cannot kill an elk. Seriously, this needs a fix. I gave them Ironwood in my mod, but their wooden armor still breaks under copper axes. They are weak and helpless now.

[MooUK]

Elves? What elves?

The fort I've just started is something like the seventh or eighth world I've generated since DF2010 was released. It's the first one where there are any elvish civilisations left, and that's only becaue I put the time limit at 500 years instead of 1050...

My last world had about two dozen total elves left in it, and all of them were living in human-controlled settlements. Mostly human towns, but a couple were left in an occupied retreat. I've never seen an elven trader in this version!

[darius]

I used to kill elves by drowning caravans, but that was not hatred just corrupted soul coz did it with every race caravan. In v31 haven't got time to set up creative depots and humans/dwarfs don't use wagons (bugged i guess) so it's not worth it.

[Fedor]

I've always been kinda fond of elves.  Goblins and demons satisfy 100% of my daily hate needs.

Elves have brought food and drink when I needed it most, wild animals when none else would, cloth for a dozen neat or useful projects, and wood on maps where wood was desperately scarce.  In short, Elves deserve some love.  They also deserve a combat upgrade in the new version!

Even their wood quotas I can handle, since they're one of the few gameworld-realistic limitations and one of the most involved aspects of diplomacy available.  My only objections are that either 1) the quota is affected by wood stockpiles, which it shouldn't be, or 2) it's used up by chopping underground tower caps and the like, which is both annoying and unrealistic (how could the elves know what I was doing underground?).

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Elves? What elves?

The fort I've just started is something like the seventh or eighth world I've generated since DF2010 was released. It's the first one where there are any elvish civilisations left, and that's only becaue I put the time limit at 500 years instead of 1050...

My last world had about two dozen total elves left in it, and all of them were living in human-controlled settlements. Mostly human towns, but a couple were left in an occupied retreat. I've never seen an elven trader in this version! :)

You need to increase the number of forests (about a quarter of the possible tiles is a good start). Also keep the non-mountain cave numbers a bit low. These are the things elven civs need to survive long enough to be resistant to sudden extinction.

Deathworks

[alway]

I would agree that elves now deserve non-incinerating in magma treatment. In my forts which have survived thus far until spring, all elven caravans brought me awesome animals. This opinion may change in the future, but I hold hope that elves have finally realized they cannot win in a war of attrition.

[RedWick]

Actually, what is this about the wood blackmailing? I have heard mention of those quotas before, but I never got confronted with something like that myself. And I regularly cut every single tree on my map as I usually heavily rely on wood blocks and charcoal. Is there a population minimum to get that?

Deathworks

Seriously?  Never?  Color me amazed!  The quota stuff has been around since the 2D days!  I don't think there's a population minimum.  Just an elf popping up in the middle of your fort asking for a meeting with whoever's in charge.  That would've been the baron or duke in the 2D days, and I think it's the same in since z-levels were introducted, but it might also have been the mayor.

[AtomicPaperclip]

Hi!

I am also with those who never hated elves and I also openly said so before.

I think it is funny how people only begin to discover the usefulness of elves now: The exotic animals like grizzly bears were also present in 40d and they did a very good job defending my fortress against goblins even back then.

And I don't think just because this is dwarf fortress do we need to revert to Tolkien's ideas of prejudiced societies there.

Deathworks

The most exotic creature they ever brought me was a racoon. I never killed them anyway because I need the possible 6 logs every year.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Seriously?  Never?  Color me amazed!  The quota stuff has been around since the 2D days!  I don't think there's a population minimum.  Just an elf popping up in the middle of your fort asking for a meeting with whoever's in charge.  That would've been the baron or duke in the 2D days, and I think it's the same in since z-levels were introducted, but it might also have been the mayor.

I know about it being around for a while. But if it is the baron/duke, then that could answer the question - I always play with pop cap around 0 to 8, so I only reach mayor in most fortresses. So, I am probably too insignificant.

AtomicPaperclip: I recommend you gen worlds with a lot of minimum forest tiles and also large regions in general (low variation values for rain, drainage, savagery and height I would assume). Traders bring goods based on what is available around their settlements. So, the larger the elven civ you are in contact with, the more variety you get in your goods. And elves need a lot of forest tiles to spread and are not very good at crossing non-forest areas while settling.

Deathworks

[KillerClowns]

It's simple.  If elves have a problem with me chopping down their forests, I butcher them.  If they bring me worthwhile trade goods, I trade with them.  I've committed my fair share of elf slaughter, but it's never been personal.  Just business.  Now that they're bringing better goods, and I'm guaranteed a magma supply for my forges, I may end up even tolerating their tree-cutting quotas so long as they're reasonable.

[Blind Wolf]

I've hated Elves since I first read LoTR. So I doubt I'll stop hating them now because they bring me extra bears.

It's got more to do with their attitude and general worldview than their usefulness.