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[Lightning4]

Making steel without trees or coal is... interesting. I have elves, humans, and dwarves bringing me wood every year. Elves bring the most, I love them so very, very much. It's impossible to hate the people who reliably bring you eight pages of wood for your steelmaking forges.

Slow going, that's for sure. Although, it'd probably be much more efficient if I just go look for some magma.

[Chronas]

i have never needed steel, iron was always sufficient in 0.28 and in the new version bronze is now the frozen blood of the gods and as such i have never needed to search for anything but a layer of granite on embark. TBH the only reason i have ever set up steel foundries is make elite dwarven knights and feel self important.

[Max White]

Well I wouldn't care that much about steel, as it is lighter then iron so dasn't make as good weapons, and less profitable then gold, BUT as it is, trying to make gold items results in anti-alchamy and iron items come out, so steel for nobals rooms.

Once this is fixed, I shall buy a few steel bars, in case of moods, then never use again.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

The table posted in the weapon research thread actually indicates that steel weapons are actually good at handling bronze armor.

Deathworks

[Max White]

Ah, but good enough to bother when cyanite is so easy to find?

[Shadowlord]

Cyanite? I've never heard of that before.

[Julius Clonkus]

Cyanite? I've never heard of that before.

I think he's talking about that stuff which stands between you and certain death.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 HolyFuckingSshitite.

[Shadowlord]

See, I don't want to be spoilered until I find the spoilers myself.

And I thought that was adamantine. Guess that changed.
Although I'm aware of slade, or at least that it exists and is unmineable.

[plenum]

I think it's better to make enemies less equipped with steel/iron, but increase their stats instead.
It's too easy to obtain iron and steel.
What for are other metals? Bad lack of balance.
 

[HLBeta]

I chose to circumvent most of this by jumping directly to the "recycled steel" step. By messing about with trade agreements, it is possible to get the dwarven caravan to bring large numbers of low-quality steel items each year. All I have to do is hand over a few bins of masterwork stone mugs and then melt it all for scrap. It probably wouldn't scale up to mass-production levels, but you can easily get enough out of it each year to arm and armor a dwarf or two.

In a similar vein, you can order large amounts of iron and/or pig iron from the human and dwarven caravans to avoid using gratuitous amounts of fuel or increase production on resource-poor maps.

[Chronas]

Hi!

The table posted in the weapon research thread actually indicates that steel weapons are actually good at handling bronze armor.

Deathworks

that would be the case if the goblins wore more armor so they could last long enough to actually get a damaging hit in. ever worn full plate with chain in adv mode? with that and competent skills even a dragon has no chance. expert axedwarfs in masterwork weapons and armor vs goblins in only cloth and chain? the bronze colossus doesn't need to be steel to kick your arse. just like the material armor is made of is a minor point when skill and craftmanship is taken into account.

[jayseesee]

Me, I go the cheapest, easiest way possible.  I set [AUTOMATIC] tags on: Pig Iron Making, Steel Making, Smelt Coal, Smelt Lignite.
Then all I have to do is set repeat on smelt Magnetite or Limonite or Hematite.  All done!

[Yagrum Bagarn]

I changed the subject line because the discussion has changed.  This is why I posted it here instead of suggestions.

In response to Kanddak, you're missing the point.  The point isn't to make the game easier, but to strive for better balance.  Continuous player input and examination of Toady's work is an essential part of DF's development.  Calling us "whiny elves" doesn't add anything useful, Mr. Internet Tough Guy.

[CrossBolt]

Exactly, saying DF isn't for you because of annoying things is as bad as saying "go back to WOW" in the dwarf fortress way.

I agree, I made one set of steel weapons and armour and said "This sucks, dig deeper!"

[Deathworks]

Hi!

I have to admit that I merely responded to the later discussion not looking at the beginning. The change of the subject has made me aware of the greater issue.

I agree that there is a balance problem, but I don't think it is the difficulty of the steel industry itself.

The process itself is nice as it is. However this is not reflected in the trader prices. Truth be told, I think that all the nifty things are way too cheap. I mean, look at an iron anvil - 100 dwarf bucks. One quality level of wooden crafts fetched 10 dwarf bucks. This means, ten wooden ear rings made by a dwarf with NO experience whatsoever are worth as much as an iron anvil - or two of exceptional quality (I think). Thus, constantly having a single craftshop creating cheap items of wood, bone, horn, and stone can get you very, very far in dealing with the caravans.

Personally, I do very little digging for metals in general, as I am a trader/crafting type, but steel production using imported material is actually a goal as merchants with extra space will sometimes bring pig iron - and there is no other use for that.

So, besides the ready availability of the stuff surrounding HFS (at least as reported by others, I don't dig very deep), the cheapness of metal and ores in comparison to wood and bone is the main issue I see.

Deathworks