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[Rooster]

as the topic says. I would really like invincible diamond armors or glass one-use swords. Diamond maces would make great damage! of course finding so much gems would be mostly impossible.

my proposition:
diamond "plate" mail set: 15 diamonds. protection: 225% (a Lot more than steel anyway). THIS NEEDS MORE BALANCING!

Diamond 2-hand sword: 2-3 diamonds.
damage: 225% (overkill         :cool: ).
THIS NEEDS BALANCING TOO!

i wonder how much protection adamant gives...

[Chthon]

Believe it or not Rooster, just because diamond is the "strongest" and "hardest" item known to man, does not mean that it is invincible.  It is possible to cut/scratch/break diamond with softer or weaker (by comparison) materials if enough force is used.  It is still much easier to just use diamond however to do this, it just means it's not invincible like many seem to think.

Also, yes diamond would be a good material for certain pieces of equipment, but diamond while strong and hard, is also brittle.  This means regardless of its tensil strength and the pressure required to crack it, it tends to break into pieces when enough force is applied to bend it.  This along with the rarity of the material is why we don't use it in more places today.

[Rooster]

still it would be better material for armors than steel. and average undead or human even with "mighty" wouldn't even scratch exeptional one with sword or even great axe CHA!    

P.S. those bastards goblins don't have a chance   :cool: !

[ November 18, 2006: Message edited by: Rooster ]

[Disruptive Idiot]

quote:Originally posted by Rooster:
<STRONG>still it would be better material for armors than steel. and average undead or human even with "mighty" wouldn't even scratch exeptional one with sword or even great axe CHA!      

P.S. those bastards goblins don't have a chance    :cool: !

[ November 18, 2006: Message edited by: Rooster ]</STRONG>

No. Contrary to SNES Final Fantasy games, diamond is a horrid material for armor. It would shatter. Steel is better than diamond by far for armor. Maybe a diamond-edged sword would be effective, but certainly not diamond armor.

[Draxxalon]

Diamond is very hard... but it is also brittle - a sharp blow, even from a softer material causes them to shatter.  Which would/does make them pretty useless as a material for armor.

[Rooster]

from where do you know that???
diamond is NOT glass

[Chthon]

quote:Originally posted by Rooster:
<STRONG>from where do you know that???
diamond is NOT glass</STRONG>

Glass is liquid, it does not apply to the conversation.  I said diamond is brittle too.  Effectively, it would be hard to hurt, but once you damage it it would break into lots of little pieces, many of which would likely lodge themselves into your body/internal organs.  A crossbow bolt would hit hard enough in fact.  Heck, a suitably strong dwarf swinging a diamond sword and missing, hitting a wall will likely break his sword.  Such is the fate of the crystalline structure.  Crystals are strong, but ridged, they do not bend well at all, instead choosing to break apart rather than bend.

[Seryntas]

Besides, even ignoring the fact that diamond won't keep from breaking, it's also very, very difficult to make armor out of gems.  Metal is ductile and malleable, and can be hammered into the shapes it needs to be hammered into, complete (especially when we're talking about plate armor) with any number of moving parts.  You have no such luck with diamond, which must be cut and is far, far harder to shape.  Plus, if you use multiple gems to make your armor, you have to somehow attach them together, causing rather obvious weakpoints in the design of the armor; since metals can be melted, that's not a problem with iron or steel.

[Rooster]

i guess you're right with the item making, but i think that you don't with the breaking. My chemist teacher said that diamond is so strong because of its structure, thing that you say makes them shatter with one blow of a bolt (i don't agree).

from wikipedia:
"The name “diamond” derives from the ancient Greek adamas (αδάμας; “invincible”). "

"Diamonds are specifically renowned as a mineral with superlative physical qualities — they make excellent abrasives because they can be scratched only by other diamonds (...)"

so i think:
superb quality diamond 2-hand sword hitting a stone wall = very MUCH destroyed wall + no scratch on a sword

also yes impossible to make armor, but having such spears or even swords (maybe even spiked or studded shields)IS possible.

quote: Diamond is very hard... but it is also brittle - a sharp blow, even from a softer material causes them to shatter. Which would/does make them pretty useless as a material for armor.  

wikipedia says otherwise.

quote: Glass is liquid, it does not apply to the conversation. I said diamond is brittle too. Effectively, it would be hard to hurt, but once you damage it it would break into lots of little pieces, many of which would likely lodge themselves into your body/internal organs. A crossbow bolt would hit hard enough in fact. Heck, a suitably strong dwarf swinging a diamond sword and missing, hitting a wall will likely break his sword. Such is the fate of the crystalline structure. Crystals are strong, but ridged, they do not bend well at all, instead choosing to break apart rather than bend.

wikipedia says diamond is a mineral

SOME RANDOM DWARF: hmm that bolt could hurt. good i have so HARD DIAMOND-STUDDED shield  

quote: Besides, even ignoring the fact that diamond won't keep from breaking

"they can be scratched only by other diamonds"

-----------------------

so what knowledge we have:

1 in dwarf worlds it would be impossible to make such armor
2 but it is possible to make: spear tip , maybe daggers, bolts (!?!) , short swords (if we stud the blade with the diamonds) , picks (thay need metal improvement but still those must be really fast-digging picks...) , rings and jewelry and thats all folks
3 we have no knowledge about diamonds
4we (really) need toady here...

[RPB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_properties_of_diamond

quote:<STRONG>
Toughness
Unlike hardness, which only denotes resistance to scratching, diamond's toughness or tenacity is only fair to good. Toughness relates to the ability to resist breakage from falls or impacts: due to diamond's perfect and easy cleavage, it is vulnerable to breakage. A diamond will shatter if hit with an ordinary hammer.
</STRONG>

So your dwarf with diamond armor will be completely invincible to having his armor scratched, but it will explode as soon as someone gives it a good solid whack.

[Griz]

edit: beaten by RPB

[ November 19, 2006: Message edited by: Griz ]

[Aquillion]

And the diamond-edged sword has some possibility (because of its hardness, diamond could hold an edge very well), but I don't see how you could make it without magic.  We make diamond-bladed saws in our world, but that only works because you can use lots of tiny pieces of diamonds to form a sawing edge--if you wanted a sword with a single long smooth edge that you could use normally, it wouldn't work.

...hmm, along the same lines.  Once magic is in, maybe we should allow glass equipment again?  A glass sword enchanted to never break would be a very good weapon.  Or possibly dwarves could be allowed to use diamond and glass as materials for artifact weapons and armor?  Artifacts don't follow the same rules as other things...  if they can make a piece of jewelry out of SAND when in one of those moods, then they can make usable equipment out of diamond or glass.

[ November 19, 2006: Message edited by: Aquillion ]

[Rooster]

finally someone understand me...

quote: edit: beaten by RPB

hahaha you deserved that!

[Draxxalon]

RPB was agreeing with everyone else on the fact that diamond is not suitable to make armor out of.

It's hard, but not tough.  There is a big difference between the two.  Steel is tough, but not hard.   You want tough materials for armor, not hard ones.

Testimony to diamonds being breakable:

Jewelry reference: http://www.foreverwed.com/jewelry/Can%20A%20Diamond%20Break.htm

RPB already quoted this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond#Toughness

Another writeup, "The Chemistry of Diamonds": http://www.khulsey.com/jewelry/kh_jewelry_diamond_chemistry.html

Diamond is hard to scratch...  Diamond is very much breakable.  

Short of applying magic (which really should make just about anything possible), Diamond would make poor armor.

(And Chthon  - glass is not a liquid).

[Capntastic]

Diamond being indestructible is one of the more common misconceptions about materials.  It is very rigid and brittle, as many gems seem to be, and have minute cracks in them that will break when hit- which is how diamondcutters operate.  Now, imagine a large sheet of diamond- as you would have in platemail or whatever.  It would have many of these cracks, and would probably break under not so much more stress than its own weight- a slight tap with a chisel, for instance.

Steel's greatness comes from it being light, tough, and malleable, depending on what alloy it is.  It can be very sharp and rigid, or soft and bendy, as you wish.