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[Rooster]

Everybody but the teachers of the people I know have their own teories.
I wanted to say something important but I forgot what.

Fuck yes, Scandinavia.


But why would Russia kill your president? I mean... that doesn't make too much sense?

Damn right. Scandinavia is badass when it comes to things like environment, and well, heavy metal.

I said, that they are too perfect to ever do that. So they didn't.

Storeeeee

Disclaimer: I'm not one of those people, and in fact I try to be tolerant and open to the world. But I agree, that such behaviour and way of thinking is dominant here. Let's just not generalise and say that everybody is like that and we'll be ok.

[czolus]

Blessings be with y'all; and with the families of the fallen.

[Forumsdwarf]

Also, Poland has a huge active neo-nazi scene. Ironic, isn't it?

Hype.

It's all of a piece with British journalist Stephen Fry blaming conservative Polish Catholics for Auschwitz.

Poland's real "Neo-Nazi" problem is with hatemongers such as Mr. Fry making scurrilous accusations.

[Stormrage]

Also, Poland has a huge active neo-nazi scene. Ironic, isn't it?

Hype.

It's all of a piece with British journalist Stephen Fry blaming conservative Polish Catholics for Auschwitz.

Poland's real "Neo-Nazi" problem is with hatemongers such as Mr. Fry making scurrilous accusations.

I hope you're not talking about THE Stephen Fry!

[Rooster]

Who?

[Pillow_Killer]

FRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

-edit-
Also that guy

[Forumsdwarf]

http://www.orla.fm/index.php/english/london-jazz/47-and-in-other-news/4263-britain-needs-a-history-lesson-after-stephen-fry-comments-says-polish-community

Three British celebrities in the span of just over a year have attacked Poland.

Hype.

(Follow the link for a picture.  It looks an awful lot like that second Fry in your pics.)

[Grakelin]

Be defensive all you like, neo-fascism is growing in central and eastern Europe due to increased immigration and ethnic conflict. It's not like Poland is the only one.

[Forumsdwarf]

While I don't think I'm being "defensive" I don't really disagree with you, either.  Neo-fascism is a serious problem in whatever form it threatens peoples' liberty.

I do think the ethnic conflict in Europe is more complicated than you're making it out to be.  To be fair you need to expand your definition of "neo-fascist" to include the people who murdered Theo van Gogh, tried to murder Kurt Westergaard, threatened to murder Ayaan Hirsi-Ali and Salman Rushdie, and call for the murder of Danish cartoonists, Jews, apostates, homosexuals, women who divorce or refuse arranged marriages, and others too numerous to mention.

Practical people need to stand up for Western values, values like freedom of speech, conscience, and association, or those values will inevitably fall to fascism, either by one group of fascists or the other.

What's happening in Denmark and Poland is part of that sorting out of values, of finding the fracture point at which tolerance must give way to the violent rejection of intolerance.

[Grakelin]

You're oversimplifying fascism. Fascism is an actual political ideology. You can hate people of another race and not be a fascist.

Fascism was dead from after world war 2 until the last couple decades.

Western values aren't infallible, however. It's ethnocentric to think so. Freedom of speech exists for this purpose.

[Forumsdwarf]

If you're using the precise definition of "Fascism" then almost nobody is a Fascist.

Most people take "fascism" to mean any political belief system that would lead to a government that suppresses individualism and pluralism in favor of nativist collectivism and authoritarianism.  That's the working definition I believed you were using.

If you're using the precise definition of "Fascism" then it's hardly a problem anywhere.  Thankfully actual Fascists are as rare as bona fide Nazis.

Whether Western values are ethnocentric or not Islamic fundamentalism quite clearly is, so while you might argue that enforcing Western freedom of the press from the barrel of a gun is no better than enforcing Islamic censorship through mob violence, you would be hypocritical not to admit it is no worse either.

"Ethnocentrism" as a moral issue is a two-way street.  Denmark has as much right to a free press as Saudi Arabia has to a censored one.

And so we're back to the threat of "over-simplified fascism" to Western values.

[Grakelin]

You are right. Ethnocentrism, by definition, is the belief that your value system is the best. Which means that you can, indeed, be ethnocentric no matter where you are from.

[smigenboger]

Ethnocentrism cannot possibly be a good thing, since it doesn't correspond to my beliefs.

[Grakelin]

Thread win.

[dwarfed one]

http://tygodnik.onet.pl/44321,artykul_info.html  - quite touching. I seen a lot of grateful comments in Russian web, full of sincere feelings. Of course, some still grunting "does they need an tragedy to see we also are people and could be kind?" and so on, but whole picture is quite impressive.
Thank you also, Polish guys. Let's be friends.