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[Mr. Boh]

I finally had the time to check out the latest release of DF, and was having a blast until I decided I needed some dwarves to defend my fortress. Over the years I've come across a lot of complaints about DF's UI, but this is the first time I've ever had an issue with it.

The military screen is no fun.

I propose a merger of the old and new system - the default should be similar to the more simple system in previous versions, and players should have the option of micromanaging things if they want to.

Let us go back to having a simple screen where we can activate dwarves, group them, select a type of weapon, general armor type, and most importantly let us activate a dwarf we see in game from the view unit menu. Seeing a list of names is too abstract for me, particularly when migrants arrive.  I like to snag them right as they enter the map for the first time. When I saw a dwarf and I activated them they'd be moved to the top of the list in the military menu, so I could easily see who I had chosen to be a soldier.

Keep the new stuff so that if someone wants to dictate what color shoelaces the third dwarf in the squad wants to wear and when he can move his bowls they can, but let it default to something similar to the old system - I don't need much more than a squad with dwarves that practice with a type of weapon I choose when inactive and move to a spot that I want when I need them to go there.

[Megaman]

YES! I really want the old system back(in a form, at least) as well

[Toybasher]

I also support this idea. We need a switch in options like: Military system : Classic or or new.

[Pilsu]

In the old system, you'd have to station dwarves next to the enemy and hope they attack the thing. It was easy to forget them stationed in the wilderness. The new system might be buggy but it's still an improvement. It just needs some more work.

[Mr. Boh]

In the old system, you'd have to station dwarves next to the enemy and hope they attack the thing. It was easy to forget them stationed in the wilderness. The new system might be buggy but it's still an improvement. It just needs some more work.

That's true. There are a number of improvements--the new squad menu is quite nice. I still think the military menu/system is a step backwards in most regards.

[Todestool]

There's no doubt that the new military screen has a steep learning curve. I found the military wiki page very helpful.  As far as grabbing new immigrants for an army, I use Dwarf Therapist (v5.0 is DF2010 compatible) and give them all the custom profession "Conscript."  That makes them much easier to sort out.

However, I would love to see some sort of "Minuteman" button that would immediately draft a dwarf, who would then attack whatever threatened him/her.  That would definitely make fisherdwarves and woodcutters easier to handle.

[Andir]

I read a suggestion in another thread that mentioned changing the requirements for Armory Dwarfs (or whatever they are called... I forget right now) to use army size instead of population which would hep some of this...

I do agree that drafting should be capable in the dwarf information menus.  You should be able to add them to a squad or create a squad from them.  You can already station a squad, so that's not so different, but you have to set them in the proper alert status to use it.  I suggest that whenever you assign a dwarf to a squad or a squad to a position, it's applied to the rules for the current alert status.  That should help the moments where you need to recruit the dwarf closest to the kidnapper goblin in a pinch.

Also, the military screen has maybe too much information in one area.  It would be "nice" to separate some of the "tabs" into individual screens so they don't seem so close knit.  It can be a little confusing the way it's setup.  Maybe a more appropriate structure would be a tree where:

Code: [Select]

Alerts
==================
Normal
+--Civilians
+--Equipment: Needed
+--Burrow: Unassigned
+--Schedule: None

+--Crusher Squad
+--Equipment: <MeleeUniform>
+--leather helmet
...
+--Burrow: <FrontGate>
+--Schedule: <StandardBiMonthly>

Train
+--Civilians
+--Equipment: Needed
+--Burrow: Unassigned
+--Schedule: None

+--Crusher Squad
+--Equipment: <MeleePracticeUniform>
+--leather helmet
...
+--Burrow: <NorthBarracks>
+--Schedule: <StandardTraining>The <text> would take you to an appropriate designation screen.

[Mr. Boh]

The wiki is certainly helpful. I do the same thing with profession names to deal with it. It goes beyond a learning curve, though--what was done easily and effectively in one screen now takes a lot more time and makes few actual improvement to the military's behavior, with only three new functions that are immediately apparent to me: civilian alerts, customizable equipment, and automation of the transition of squad activities.

Your minuteman button existed previously in the form of activation from the unit view. The new system cut out some really good things from the previous version and only added a few minor functions, all nestled in a tangle of screens.

Like I said earlier, the new options should be available for those that want to tinker with minutiae. The old system was quick, neat, and almost as powerful, so keep it and bury the new stuff in an optional menu so people can make things done automatically if they want.

[Richards]

Like I said earlier, the new options should be available for those that want to tinker with minutiae. The old system was quick, neat, and almost as powerful, so keep it and bury the new stuff in an optional menu so people can make things done automatically if they want.

I agree.

[Andir]

Like I said earlier, the new options should be available for those that want to tinker with minutiae. The old system was quick, neat, and almost as powerful, so keep it and bury the new stuff in an optional menu so people can make things done automatically if they want.

My post was mainly a way to make it easy to integrate both versions... if you squad a dwarf, it should go under the current alert state (or even all alert states.. ie: ability to ignore alerts)  That would make it easy to draft a dwarf into the current situation.  You can keep the system the way it is and never have to look at it if it's done that way.  The dwarf information screen can have a simple squad menu and even an equipment menu that takes you to a special equipment screen for that dwarf.

My main gripe with keeping both systems is that it severely complicates things and you're asking for bugs galore.  Two systems to handle one situation is a bad case.  I think the current system can be "adapted" to work like the old one.

[Mr. Boh]

@ Andir,

Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing. The mechanics of the new system are definitely a good thing. The adaptation you mention is basically the merger that I was hoping for (but perhaps not articulating well!).

A good default configuration for the new system paired with a slim UI and the ability to activate/squad a dwarf from the view unit screen should make it look and behave pretty close to how it used to while giving us more control over our military if we want.

[Andir]

It already starts off with a default config, "default alert"(I forget what it's called) and "Training" alert modes.

Remember, you are always in an alert state in the new DF.  It just so happens that you start in an alert where there are no burrows, squads, or schedules defined.  You can (if I remember right) just as easily define a squad, schedule or alert in the "default" alert and they will activate right away... it's just that it's a little confusing if you view alerts as optional/additional as opposed to always being in an alert state.

You could (with the reinstatement of proper menu options in the dwarf information) do everything you used to be able to do without ever changing that default alert mode.  I think the only exception to this is the setting of outside as forbidden without dealing with odd burrow/warren workarounds.

I'm just throwing out ideas here.  Not trying to hamper things. 

[Mr. Boh]

It's not really a big deal to set the inactive alert to have a training schedule, you're right, but the schedule is the least of the issues, for me, anyway. Designating dwarves for the military so I can squad easily is really what I'm most interested in, particularly when I have a lot of dwarves/get a lot of migrants. Previously I could activate them and then, in the "m" menu, just stick all the color coded and labeled (and conveniently located at the top of the list) names in squads as I saw fit.

(with the reinstatement of proper menu options in the dwarf information)

This is, I think, what is most needed.

[jellyman]

Two things I miss from the old system are ability to draft a dwarf directly when you have that dwarf selected, specifically to deal with a nearby minor threat such as a goblin thief with the nearest dwarf or three.  And to be able to view a dwarf directly from military screen.

[Pilsu]

Drafting a dwarf just to make it fight back was a poor system. You should be able to tell dwarves to attack something in their view range or fight back without drafting them and causing unhappy thoughts.