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Author Topic: 2010 General Elections. America has a black man. We have a gay couple.  (Read 15241 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #150 on: May 08, 2010, 06:14:52 pm »

On an unrelated note, I am very happy with the BNP rout.  Heck, they lost all their councillors in their supposed stronghold of Barking (yes, seriously).
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Pathos

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #151 on: May 08, 2010, 08:33:03 pm »

lol Daily Fail. They can piss off. The party they were backing failed, end.

On my way back from Russia, there were a bunch of Daily Fail papers (for free) in the airport, along with some Independent and Guardian ones. The Daily Fail was a great read, it had about three or four contradictory articles about the same point. :')
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Starver

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #152 on: May 10, 2010, 10:30:02 am »

Looks like I was right[1], when the Tories could immediately woo the Lib Dems, they would of course keep their options open.

A good job for the Liibs that Gordon didn't immediately step down[2], as then the Tories could have decided just to go straight in as minority government without even considering a partnership.  Whereas the LDs still maintain at least a finger or two on the power switch.  However, I still see PR[3][4] as being a deal-breaker.  Just less so under Labour.

I also feel that internal Labour calls for Gordon's stepping down is a misplaced tactic, for those involved, as it's not going to make a better Labour Party, would effectively signal the end for Labour having any continuity and thus retaining a tenable position in waiting for Clegg to come round to their way.  (Ok, so it's possible that... ooooh, I don't know Lord VoldemortLord Mandelson could step up to the plate and drag almost all non-Con parties into a coalition...  Ah ha ha ha!  I really crack me up sometimes!)

Of course, maybe the hope is that a highly unstable Lib-Con coalition (or highly debatable Con-minority government) will attain power, totally annoy everyone and get Labour back in on the Better The Devil You Already Knew line... :)




BTW: Just to colour me, so you can easily work out where any biases I may be working into the above, I was born in a Labour-born-and-bred constituency, I currently live in a Labour-born-and-bred constituency (this time round merged with another Lbab constituency, which to my mind makes me think that Labour lost one of their seats just by a constituency reshuffle), and am personally happy with my Labour MP on top of that (while I did think that one of the ones I used to have in my 'motherland' was a bit of a prat), so would fight to keep him if there was any danger (very little) that he'd be ousted.  But I think that personally I have far more in common with the LDs than Labour (old or New) at a national level, and have no particular love for Gordon.  Though I do think that "Call Me Dave" is far too smarmy (Tony Blair v2.0, the Tory eventual answer to New Labour's popularity that out-survived NL's front-man himself) and have a feeling that Clegg is of the same mould, though I'm still not as fed up with him, and all power to his minority, although my intense dislike for Cameron (and not a little historical dislike of the Tories in general, though I'm trying to be rational about that) means that I pretty much have to default to wanting him to ally with Brown (or, of course, another Labour successor...  I can't see Cameron standing down to make the alternative alternative sit better within my current political and personal preferences.).


BTW, I also dislike people talking about voting (or not) for Gordon Brown/any of the other leaders, unless they have that person as a candidate.  If they like/dislike their local Lab/Lib/Con/Green/BNP/whatever candidate they should vote accordingly for that.  Damaging a party majority that (in other years) was still safe enough while getting rid of what might be a moderating voice from one's own constituency is one of the worst things you could do.  Go for the guy who represents you the best.  If he's in the ruling party then he can help steer, if he's in Opposition (or even just small-o opposition) then he's still better than another other choice (e.g. voting in the wrong party with the wrong guy, just to send a message).  Of course the current FPTP system means that a significant number of voters in any given area will never get the guy they prefer, but that's not something anyone can help by pretending you're voting for an individual, like with Presidents.

Anyway, that's a summary (ha!) of what I think.  I know that I'm not going to be agreed with on some (most?) points I make, but that's the nature of human individualism and a pesky side-effect of humans not possessing a Hive Mind. :)


[1] Well, obviously I didn't say anything about this to you lot before, so feel free to dismiss statement as mere hyperbole.

[2] Not that he could have done, without a credible new parliament.  He is really behoven to stay until there's a definite alternative.

[3] My problem with PR is that one no longer gets an identifiable representative in parliament, by default.  To accomplish this under full PR, the parties would have to assign each member that did get elected a region of appropriate size (with a single elected ultra-minority party member ultimately responsible for the whole country).  Or parliament as a whole divvy the country up into areas... let's call the "constituencies" and, based upon the popular vote made in each "constituency", try to get an MP that has an interest in that area and roughly aligns with the majority decision of all the voters in that "constituency" to cover that area.  Oh, hang on... :)

[4] Can't remember if this is represented by one of the known systems names, but I'd go for something like making double-size constituencies with an actual list, the so-called-FPTP winner getting in as normal as a geographically-tied person, and then all the non-winning votes going towards a national PR system where party lists are used as a 'top-up'.  Important for all "generally popular but perpetually 2nd or 3rd place" parties, and obviously detrimental for "love'em'or'hate'em" parties, like the Big 2.  Also, parties would have to be even more tactical about their members.  Do you put the person you're grooming for future office into a geographic 'safe' seat, and assume he or she doesn't suffer a 'Portillo' moment, or send them to near the top of the national PR list and assuming that you will get a decent number of substantial but non-winning votes to play with, and not have a land-slide that ends up electing your Geographicals while leaving few votes for your Proportionals?
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Nilocy

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Pathos

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #154 on: May 10, 2010, 01:07:09 pm »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8672859.stm

Brown stands down.

inb4 the Tories try and come in as a minority government and fail horribly, whilst Lib-Lab-non-Con-Ind push for another general election under parliamentary reform.
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RedKing

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #155 on: May 10, 2010, 01:09:48 pm »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8672859.stm

Brown stands down at some undetermined point between now and four months from now.

Fixed.

I rather liked this though:
Quote
Foreign Secretary David Miliband and Education Secretary Ed Balls will likely be leading contenders to succeed Brown as party leader.

I would so love to see Prime Minister Balls. Instant campaign slogan: "It takes Balls to run this country"
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ed boy

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Re: 2010 General Elections. Brown Quits, WE HAVE NO GOVERNMENT AHHHH.
« Reply #156 on: May 10, 2010, 01:20:15 pm »

I would vote based purely on that slogan.
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Leafsnail

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Re: 2010 General Elections. Brown Quits, WE HAVE NO GOVERNMENT AHHHH.
« Reply #157 on: May 10, 2010, 01:32:39 pm »

Shouldn't it be Harriet Harman, the deputy party leader?

Ok, you can stop laughing now.
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redacted123

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« Reply #158 on: May 10, 2010, 01:34:45 pm »

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 11:09:55 am by Stany »
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Leafsnail

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Re: 2010 General Elections. Brown Quits, WE HAVE NO GOVERNMENT AHHHH.
« Reply #159 on: May 10, 2010, 01:36:45 pm »

I just don't like their party leader Rupert Murdoch.
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fenrif

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #160 on: May 10, 2010, 01:42:26 pm »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8672859.stm

Brown stands down.

inb4 the Tories try and come in as a minority government and fail horribly, whilst Lib-Lab-non-Con-Ind push for another general election under parliamentary reform.
While political opinions are valued, your constant "OH MY GOD CONSERVATIVES! They can't run government! They give the rich all of our money and kick babies!" spiel is starting to irritate. Seriously, you may not consider them to have good policies but blind bias against them gets no one no where. Consider for a second that they got over 30% of the vote. That means that you essentially consider over 30% of the country to be stupid or rich while the 20 something % who voted for Liberal Democrats are all geniuses. Also, around a third of the working class actually votes Conservative, obviously you never see this since they're drowned out by Labour. Many people like the Conservatives, they're not entirely incompetent and they're not reincarnations of Thatcherism (and it's stupid to think they are). If I came out with the same kind of crap about Labour as you do the Conservatives, you'd accuse me of knowing nothing about politics. This isn't directed just at you by the way.

and now for the torrent of abuse...

Lol at "political opinions are valued, but yours isn't so shut up!" Nice attempted save. :P

Also; I defintaly consider over 30% of the country to be stupid or rich. Working class people who vote conservative definatly fall into one of those categories.
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redacted123

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« Reply #161 on: May 10, 2010, 01:48:05 pm »

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 11:08:52 am by Stany »
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Pathos

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #162 on: May 10, 2010, 01:54:27 pm »

While political opinions are valued, your constant "OH MY GOD CONSERVATIVES! They can't run government! They give the rich all of our money and kick babies!" spiel is starting to irritate. Seriously, you may not consider them to have good policies but blind bias against them gets no one no where. Consider for a second that they got over 30% of the vote. That means that you essentially consider over 30% of the country to be stupid or rich while the 20 something % who voted for Liberal Democrats are all geniuses. Also, around a third of the working class actually votes Conservative, obviously you never see this since they're drowned out by Labour. Many people like the Conservatives, they're not entirely incompetent and they're not reincarnations of Thatcherism (and it's stupid to think they are). If I came out with the same kind of crap about Labour as you do the Conservatives, you'd accuse me of knowing nothing about politics. This isn't directed just at you by the way.

and now for the torrent of abuse...

Well, considering they got 30% of the vote whilst getting 47% of the seats, yes, I do have a problem with them. They're standing against an actually democratic reform of the system, merely due to the fact they can exploit seats (and subsequently exploiting the system itself) with low / rich populations for their purposes

If a third of the working class votes for the Tories, they're uneducated on what each party is, to be perfectly honest. (If that's only counting this election, doubly so.) I'm guessing the Tories ARE incompetent (or Thatcherite bastards who don't want to expose their policies) based off the fact that they spoke nothing but quacktalk during the election, giving no real hint at what they'd like to do.

My dislike of David Cameron and his government comes from three things:-
1. The main dislike of David Cameron is the fact he attempted to exploit his disabled son's death to get public sympathy. This sickened me, utterly.
2. He's a populist scumbag who jumps onto whatever bandwagon comes along, nevermind if he agrees with the public's point of view - he'll say he does nonetheless.
3. He IS just an '80's Tory in a different skin, he just knows how to hide it under media spin and propaganda.
4. The heavily Tory press was used to boost his popularity ridiculously, without revealing anything of the Tory party's policies.
5. Again, they're standing against democratic reform, simply because they can exploit the weaknesses of the system. The fact he spoke out against corruption in the parliamentary system (during the expenses scandal, also see point 2) and then stands for this is just hilarious hypocrisy.

Oh, and you're only seeing the PUBLIC Conservative face. (They're still pretty terrible.) You do realise they had all the utter nutjobs, don't you?
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fenrif

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Re: 2010 General Elections. UK's time to shine.
« Reply #163 on: May 10, 2010, 02:01:22 pm »

Lol at "political opinions are valued, but yours isn't so shut up!" Nice attempted save. :P

Also; I defintaly consider over 30% of the country to be stupid or rich. Working class people who vote conservative definatly fall into one of those categories.
If you'd read it you'd see that I never once insulted another party. I didn't even state that I supported the Conservatives. Also, stupid or not, they have opinions and they have the vote. Don't elevate yourself just because you believe that they're less intelligent than you.

I've never elevated myself above anyone, and never questioned the validity of their opinions. Was just pointing out that in all likelyhood at least 30% if the population is either stupid or rich.

Theres a reason that conservatives get bashed all the time, it's not just something that everyone decided upon one day because the moons alligned in a certain way.
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Huesoo

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Re: 2010 General Elections. Brown Quits, WE HAVE NO GOVERNMENT AHHHH.
« Reply #164 on: May 10, 2010, 02:51:12 pm »

I say the way we solve this is by pitting them in Mortal Kombat. We drop each leader into the Amazon jungle and only give them a machete to defend themselves. The one who emerges after a week shall be Prime Minister.
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