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[Shadowlord]

Wow. That has got to be a bug.

[Duane]

I look for four things.
Warm, A river, a mountain, trees.
If it's got all of those, I have everything I need.

[Max White]

Why would anybody go for two crappy layers to forfil what one could go on its own?

~Some type of sand~
Limestone
Marble
Granite
Gabbro

Would make my day! If I ever find a site like this then all bets are off, don't care about anything else, I embark.

[Jake]

As far as location goes, a new player should stick to these rules:
~Sedimentary Flux layer.
~Neutral or good biome.
~Lots of trees.
~Source of running water.

And no magma until you've had a bit of practice. The benefits outweigh the drawbacks if your play-style involves a lot of forging, but taking advantage of it requires good fortress design and careful dwarf-management or you'll be doing well if you last the first year.

With skills, on the other hand, newbies like simple and effective, so proficient on 2 skills is probably the best way.

I have to disagree with you there. I forget how many embark points a level of skill costs, but most of the skills you'll need in the first year can be trained easily enough after you arrive if you don't mind not having much to offer the first caravan. A Proficient Grower might be worth it if you're not trading the anvil in for extra food and seeds, as would a Proficient Metalcrafter or Weaponsmith if you're hellbent on having metalwork goods to offer the first caravan, but I wouldn't suggest a beginner try either.

[Max White]

Proficient stonecrafter + Flux layer (Or even better, obsidian layer!) = buy out the first caravan easy.

Just turn off all hes labors except stone crafting and have him work like a man man constantly! Not the most efficient method to have something to offer the first caravan, but were going for easy, and I don't think it gets much easier.

It also cleans a fair amount of stone from the halls, and that should make things a little easier for players not used to the interface.

[Asmodeous]

The flux layer doesn't need to be the sedimentary layer. You can often find Shale (sediment) on top of Marble (flux) and be even better off than if you had a Limestone or Dolomite layer.

How would having shale be better than having dolomite? Shale and dolomite have the same materials in them, the only difference being that dolomite is also a flux stone. Having dolomite doesn't restrict you from getting marble layers, so you could have dolomite/marble. Having marble isn't anything spectacular other than additional flux. It gives you copper, lead, silver, zinc and emeralds but you can get the same with schist, or any other metamorphic rock (minus the emeralds).

And the only bonus Sandstone gives you is even more copper, and who ever needs MORE copper? It's everywhere.

I stick by the fact that sedimentary flux is the best. Iron, fuel, and flux in one layer? Yes please.

Variety. The Sedimentary can be a flux layer (I swear I said that. . .) along with Marble, but if I can choose between Marble and any Sediment or no Marble and a Sedimentary Flux, screw the sedimentary flux.

The only way you can get all metal types and a good variety of gems is if you have all four stone layers. Why limit yourself from having a good solid Metamorphic because you prefer a Sedimentary Flux? As you said: Shale will give you the same stuff you get out of Chalk. So you don't lose anything stepping down from Chalk/Limestone/Dolomite for Shale/Claystone/Mudstone/Rock Salt (actually Rock Salt gets a really solid mix in comparison, but that could just be my luck).

But you GAIN a great deal of some of the best gems from having that Marble layer, plus you get decent precious metals for crafting and statues.

@Max: A proficient stonecraft + any layer = buy out the first caravan easy if you just set him on repeat build rock crafts from the start. There's no reason for it to be flux. It is most certainly better if it's obsidian, but personally I like to save the obsidian for statues.

But there's nothing "crappy" about any of the layers. All of the stone types have distinct advantages, you just have to use them for their advantages. Variety is the best you can get, with multiple stone layers of different kinds. If you can manage to get Sediment on top of Igneous Extrusive AND Intrusive, AND a nice metamorphic rock like Marble, and toss in some Obsidian for good measure. . . .

. . . your fortress can officially do everything, and therefore deserves to be the Mountainhome.

[Max White]

Don't forget sand!

But anyway, I prefer working in a flux or obsidian layer for stone crafts for the first year because even though you might be able to buy out the first and second caravan, it will take most of your crafts, leaving less time to produce things for the human caravan. Working with a higher valued stone means you save the excess for silly tall dwarfs who don't know how to work with metal.

[pushy]

3. Proficent Carpenter and Wood Cutter

* Woodworker (Adequate Woodcutter/Carpenter, Novice Axedwarf/Bone Carver)

Why do so many people always give their carpenter the woodcutting skill? If you have a mason or a stonecrafter are you going to give them some mining skill points so they can dig out the rocks that they'll be making doors and crappy trinkets out of? No, you'd have two dwarves working together - a miner digging out the rocks and a mason or craftsdwarf turning those rocks into more useful things. But this logic never seems to be applied to carpentry for some reason Personally, I don't embark with a carpenter, but if I did then he'd be the last dwarf (besides my miners) to get an axe. No, as soon as I embark, I enable the woodcutting labour on my metalsmith. He's not got very much to do at the start of the game, so he can make himself more useful by cutting down trees that other dwarves (typically this was my glassmaker in 40d and older versions, but now it'll probably be my doctor more often than not) turn into beds/bins

[Nobu]

I like working with wood.  I usually start with a carpenter/bowyer and a siege engineer/mechanic, but currently I am not because I have had too many pains training marksdwarves (as they are my favorite soldier type).

Siege Engineers take outrageous amounts of wood, time, and storage space to train up though, so starting with points in that gives you a head start, much like how many people start with a weaponsmith/armorsmith (which I also like to do).

Mining on the other hand is easy to build up, so I don't usually start with anyone trained in it.

Searching for a location with medium or high rainfall and medium drainage with a small box (3x3 is what I use; I then usually expand it out a little bit once a spot is scouted) will usually locate you a healthy forest.  If only the site finder had a "trees" option...

[Max White]

3. Proficent Carpenter and Wood Cutter

* Woodworker (Adequate Woodcutter/Carpenter, Novice Axedwarf/Bone Carver)

Why do so many people always give their carpenter the woodcutting skill? If you have a mason or a stonecrafter are you going to give them some mining skill points so they can dig out the rocks that they'll be making doors and crappy trinkets out of? No, you'd have two dwarves working together - a miner digging out the rocks and a mason or craftsdwarf turning those rocks into more useful things. But this logic never seems to be applied to carpentry for some reason Personally, I don't embark with a carpenter, but if I did then he'd be the last dwarf (besides my miners) to get an axe. No, as soon as I embark, I enable the woodcutting labour on my metalsmith. He's not got very much to do at the start of the game, so he can make himself more useful by cutting down trees that other dwarves (typically this was my glassmaker in 40d and older versions, but now it'll probably be my doctor more often than not) turn into beds/bins

I think a lot of people do this (I'm guilty of it sometimes, but not often) because wood is the staple for the three B's, beds bins and barrels, but not massively needed for much else, so its sometimes worth slowing down production for not having to worry about teaming dwarfs up.

If your going to start with a metal smith then by all means screw wood cutting, but if you plan to be using all 7 embark dwarfs to there fullest, then synchronizing wood cutting and carpentry isn't always worth it.

[Lemunde]

I always make sure to embark on a site that has a sedimentary layer for coal.  That way I don't have to worry about finding magma or burning wood.  I also try to embark on a site with sand but it's much less of a necessity now.  Gabbro is something I keep an eye out for because where there's gabbro there's olivine and where there's olivine there's native platinum.

I don't do anything particular with my starting dwarves than anyone else.  I raise the mechanics skill on my mason for convenience and I make sure one of my farmers has brewing.

For equipment I do things a little differently.  I don't bring any seeds or plump helmets because I gather plants on site and use the seeds from those for my crops above ground.  The only animals I bring are two wardogs, one male, one female.  This proved to be a wise decision in my last fort because as soon as the map loaded my dwarves were immediately harassed by a buttload of buzzards.  The wardogs killed most of them.

I take plenty of meat and make sure to load up on booze.  I try to take some cloth and thread because I often get a moody dwarf wanting some for his trinket of awesome and I can't be bothered to make my own.  I also take a unit of coke to get my furnaces started along with an anvil.  The anvil is so cheap now there's not much reason to not embark with one.

[Asmodeous]

Don't forget sand!

Yeah, Sand is always a boon. Though it's not a make-or-break anymore since you can order both sand and glass, and also they're pretty cheap.

But anyway, I prefer working in a flux or obsidian layer for stone crafts for the first year because even though you might be able to buy out the first and second caravan, it will take most of your crafts, leaving less time to produce things for the human caravan. Working with a higher valued stone means you save the excess for silly tall dwarfs who don't know how to work with metal.

The thing about it though is that I usually have a stupid amount of stone, and to top that off, I hope that by the third caravan I am already producing metal goods to trade, and therefore the stone values are no longer relevant. If I don't, then I am doing it wrong in my opinion.

Personally, I don't embark with a carpenter, but if I did then he'd be the last dwarf (besides my miners) to get an axe. No, as soon as I embark, I enable the woodcutting labour on my metalsmith. He's not got very much to do at the start of the game, so he can make himself more useful by cutting down trees that other dwarves (typically this was my glassmaker in 40d and older versions, but now it'll probably be my doctor more often than not) turn into beds/bins

Tbh, my metalsmith is going to be a busy, busy beaver for a long period of time, because he's going to have to turn all of that coal and lignite I'll be finding into coke, and once he's done with that it's pretty much guaranteed that I'm going to have ore for him to smelt. He needs to do something.

The reason that you give the carpenter woodcutting and don't apply the same thing to mining is pretty easy to understand, really. Your carpenter has a lot of downtime until there are wood logs to deal with. So instead of having him stand around, he can cut the wood down himself. Further you don't need him building 24/7. So you can strip out 40-50 trees, then turn it all into useful things like beds/bins/barrels, then he can take a nap for a while or go cut down more trees, and on the flip side of that, once you have filled your wood pile, your woodcutter has nothing to do until your carpenter finishes work. So since the two jobs regularly alternate downtime with only very minor overlap once the woodcutter's skill gets up a bit (i.e. he cuts down about 20 trees), it just makes sense for them to be the same person.

With a miner, you're going to be digging pretty much constantly the entire game. You can't really sacrifice your miner stopping to build a table or something, because you want him to keep digging out more rooms.

[Squirrelloid]

Wait, people actually take points in wood-cutting?  Seriously?  What a waste...

Anyone can cut wood.  The speed difference is negligible.  I agree with the previous poster - my metalsmith, weaponsmith, or armorer can do it until i have a forge running, and by that time I have immigrants to cut wood for me.

Of course, I only rarely take a miner...

Stonecrafting causes crappy moods.  Do not want.  You can get everything you need out of the first caravan with mechanics and, if necessary, prepared meals.  As cooking is not a mood skill, and you want the mechanic regardless, this doesn't dilute your moodable skills set with crap.

I almost always start with a proficient in grower, brewer, cook.  The impact on farming efficiency is quite significant, and the happiness impact of the last two is incredibly important.  The cook also contributes significantly to fortress wealth and potentially trading wealth.  (i like making cheese, syrupx3 roasts).

I usually round out my starting group with skills which I actively want moods in (metalworking, clothier, etc...), or skills which contribute directly to happiness (mason - not awful for moods, carpenter, building designer).  I don't even take miners most of the time - anyone can mine, and will level up sufficiently fast for any necessary early uses - in fact, switching miners before they level up too much is the real trick!

Add a leader and a mechanic and you're good to go.

[Paul]

Variety. The Sedimentary can be a flux layer (I swear I said that. . .) along with Marble, but if I can choose between Marble and any Sediment or no Marble and a Sedimentary Flux, screw the sedimentary flux.

The only way you can get all metal types and a good variety of gems is if you have all four stone layers. Why limit yourself from having a good solid Metamorphic because you prefer a Sedimentary Flux? As you said: Shale will give you the same stuff you get out of Chalk. So you don't lose anything stepping down from Chalk/Limestone/Dolomite for Shale/Claystone/Mudstone/Rock Salt (actually Rock Salt gets a really solid mix in comparison, but that could just be my luck).

But you GAIN a great deal of some of the best gems from having that Marble layer, plus you get decent precious metals for crafting and statues.

Precious metals and gems? I've never really seen marble as a yielder of precious metals and gems. Marble has the occasional emerald and some value 20 red grossular and topazolite. Then theres the metric ton of malachite and chrysocolla (copper, and a value 2 gem). It's redeeming quality is that it works as a flux. That's pretty much the extent of Marble's goodness (it can also have zinc, but not as much as other metamorphic rocks since its so full of malachite instead).

Schist is way better than Marble. Schist has a lot more zinc instead of all the extra copper, which is fun for making brass. It also has most of the same good gems as Marble, with the advantage of having a few less of the cheap ones (makes room for Emeralds - I seem to find tons and tons of emeralds in Schist, might just be lucky).

The real treasure trove is Gabbro. Diamonds, diamonds everywhere ranging in value from 30-60. Big clusters of them too. Tons of 20 value gems as well. Native platinum scattered through the olivine clusters. Tons of Nickel, but that kinda sucks. Veins of gold too, but not as much as Diorite.

Marble works if its there and makes a great flux if you pick a site with igneous extrusive rock, but if I had flux and could choose I'd pick Schist or Gabbro or even Diorite over it.

[jplur]

5 mining / 5 mason
5 mining / 5 mechanic

I tend to designate new areas as needed, so these guys have some time on their hands.  Mechanisms are my trade good.

5 planter / 5 brewer

Don't usually cook stuff

1 woodburner / 1 furnace op / 5 armorer / 3 weapon

I used to sell my anvil and not start smithing till mid game, with the new version this guy is my biggest asset

5 woodcutter / 5 carpenter

I really value getting a huge amount of lumber quickly, so not a waste.

5 swordsdwarf / 5 teacher

This guy just trains himself, not really sure if the teacher skill is helping once he gets his squad, but it feels right.

4 usual expedition leader skills, 2 building designer, 4 different doctor skills.


To afford all that I sell off one axe, most of the default medical supplies, and some food/booze.  I'll add a bronze short sword, and off they go.