Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6

Author Topic: Embark Strategies  (Read 16368 times)

LemonFrosted

  • Bay Watcher
  • I can't really make you love me
    • View Profile
Embark Strategies
« on: April 09, 2010, 03:09:55 am »

I'm working on some sections of the wiki and I wanted to include some common strategies for Embarking under the subjects Choosing the Right Location and Preparation Strategies.

What are some things in the current version that you look for in a site for settling and why? What do you bring with you, what do you omit? What should your starting skill set look like?
Logged

Jhoosier

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • http://wilcotangofoxtrot.blogspot.com
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 03:27:45 am »

From the looks of things, a proper doctor is going to be necessary, going by the bugs being reported of surgeons stuck in surgery forever and dwarves healing before they get checked by a bone setter.  Dunno how that will influence the skill points you have available to give people, or what gear you'll be able to bring, considering how high it seems medical skills need to be to be effective.

For animals, now that we can select sex it's good to have one male cat for killing the vermin that will then pile up around the fortress, a breeding pair of dogs (war if you can afford it), and a breeding pair of livestock.  If you feel like gambling, take two females of something and pray that you get a male of the same kind pulling your wagon.
Logged

Paul

  • Bay Watcher
  • Polite discourse with a dash of insanity.
    • View Profile
    • Need an affordable website? I can help.
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 03:40:47 am »

For a site I always look at the layer stones first.

The main thing I look for is a sedimentary flux stone, like dolomite or chalk. This gives you a TON of options by itself. Sedimentary stones specifically contain Iron, Platinum, Coals, Rubies/Sapphires, and Gypsum for plaster (and copper/silver from the tetrahedrite, but every single rock type has that). Having it be a flux stone lets you use it with the iron it contains to make steel.

Then I look for other stone types that have things I like. I prefer to have a site with gabbro because it has diamonds (and gold, platinum, nickel). Granite is also nice, since it's the only rock that has tin for making bronze (it also has emeralds). Marble is a good one to look for too, since not only is it an extra flux stone but its one of the ones with Zinc and it can also have emeralds.

If you just can't find a good site with sedimentary flux stone, you could alternatively go with a site that has igneous extrusive rock, like obsidian, which also has iron and is the only rock with aluminum (plus in the case of obsidian its sharp and can be made into shortswords, but I haven't seen how good obsidian swords are in this version yet). I say alternatively because you can't get sedimentary and igneous extrusive in the same biome, although you can find multi-biome sites with one of each. If you can't find a spot like that and want to have the obsidian you can always look for Marble to suit your flux needs for steel making.

Sand is also kinda nice to have, just to be able to make glass things without importing it.

Everything else is pretty much covered by the underground now, assuming they leave all the layers turned on. Features like rivers and stuff might be handy early on, but one can almost always (I haven't had a spot that didn't have water underground yet) find water underground if it isn't present on the surface.

Also, my advice would be to avoid aquifers until you know how to deal with them. They can be a pain for new players.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 03:48:20 am by Paul »
Logged
Do you like Science Fiction? I'm writing the Weaveborn Saga over on Royal Road and my website. Link

Evanjr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 03:42:41 am »

I seem to usually have success with the old default settings except for very slight changes.. I always try to have a river even though it slows things down. Rivers are so much easier to use for water, etc. I like to have sand layers on the top so I can put storage facilities there, though right now I am doing an all below ground fortress (except possibly some delving above for wood) That's all I could think of for now, sorry if that was somewhat newbish
Logged

Belathus

  • Bay Watcher
  • huzzah for home automation
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 03:43:03 am »

I like to embark with 3+ soil layers, the absence of an aquifer layer, and with some form of sediment stone, preferably limestone, dolomite, or chalk.  A volcano helps to get magma sooner, though it usually results in there not being any sediment stone nearby.  The extra soil layers allow you to grow underground treefarms without irrigating large areas.  The new underground trees and their various colors are nifty, I think.

I'll typically embark with no weaponry, four stones (like microcline), three pieces of wood, an anvil, and 4 bars of metal (copper, usually) to make picks and an axe with.  I bring many different types of food in small quantities to maximize barrels, a few of each seed type for bags, and I'll sometimes grab sand for cheap bags if wood is abundant, and a couple dogs.  Most of the rest is food and drink.  Oh, and buckets, due to the requiring of mud for farms.  Sometimes I'll bring a cat or two and a wooden cage to prevent the female from breeding too much.  Alternatively to the copper, you can grab a training axe and cut trees down right away, though that is probably a bug, and probably considered cheating.  Also, you may want to bring along leather or more metal to make armor for the woodcutter.

I typically give three dwarves skill in mining and growing, one getting ranks in cooking, another in brewing, and the last gets woodburning.  One dwarf is a carpenter, woodcutter, and axedwarf, and I put him in the military, and he trains the dogs (though, I don't give him a rank in animal training).  Usually he trains in his spare time, which is good.  One is a mason who gets leatherworking (if I brought leather for leather armor), another a mechanic who gets leadership skills and a rank in architecture, one a weaponsmith and armorsmith, as well as a rank in furnace operating.  You may consider giving one of the miners skill in healthcare or some such (maybe even bring healthcare supplies).

So, when starting, I first build a forge and a wood furnace, make charcoal, and forge three picks and an axe.  Deconstruct the wagon if you need the wood.  Build a barracks (so the woodcutter can train), enlist the woodcutter, have him train the dogs to war dogs, and continue from there.  You should probably make a few medical supplies shortly if you expect conflicts (like in evil or savage biomes), especially if you didn't bring any.
Logged
Nothing to see here.

Proteus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 03:50:42 am »

In previous versions it was definitely sand at the target location.

Now that we can import sand this has become less of a problem however and now,  with DF 2010 I tend to not care about sand.
 
Most important IMHO is a flowing water source (brook, river) (although, of  course, you might get away without having one, by quickly setting up underground farming and brewing booze...but this still would leave any wounded/sick dwarves without a source  for drinking)

Aside from this I  select my location at will, usually at the rim of  a mountain, so that I get some mountain tiles,  as well as some flatland  tiles (ideally wooded) in my embarkation area.

As for the things I take with me...definitely no anvil,
I prefer to invest the money I get from it into the education of my dwarves, so that all of them have all of their skill slots filled.

I also tend to get rid of the bunch of preselected created items, like buckets, ropes, crutches and the like...instead I take with me more raw materials as well as  ~30-40 towercaps/fungiwood logs.
Also 4 picks are a  must, so that 4 of my dwarfs can be used  for mining (at least in the  initial phase, when they donīt have too much to do in the jobs I trained them  for)

Education/Jobs:
1st Dwarf: Leader/Miner: 6-7 points into things important to become leader and broker (appraisal, negotiation, judge of intent, organizing and others, all at least with 1 pt), rest into mining
2nd dwarf: Doc/Recordkeeper +at least another productive job: 1-2pts into diagnostics, 1pt in each other medical skill, 1pt in Recordkeeping, rest into 1-2 jobs
3rd Dwarf: Cook: 4-5pts in cooking,  2-4pts  in brewing,  rest in fish cleaning and butchery
4th Dwarf: Farmer: around 3-4pts in Growing, at least 1pt in milling, Plant processing and Brewing
5th Dqarf: Crafter: Usually 5pts in stone crafting,  rest in other crafting jobs (although that  might change,  as now bone carving has become next to worthless)
6th Dwarf:  Clothier: 2-4pts in leatherworking and clothier, rest into weavingand tanning
7th Dwarf: Builder: Most of  his points into Masonry, Engraving and Mechanics, as well as a few  points into Carpenter  (if no other dwarf already has pts in this job)
Logged

stormyseasons

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 03:56:10 am »

pretty much what I did in 40d. someone with at least novice in all medical, someone with relevant skill set for broker/manager/clerk, 3 miners, 1 woodcutter, miners and woodcutter all have novice carpentry and masonry, woodcutter has novice herbalism to avoid 1st year starvation. 1 grower/cook/brewer. Everything else assigned as needed. I prefer a site with sedimentary flux stone, for fuel and steel. Abundant trees a must, unless I've embarked on a volcano or decide to dig straight down for magma. I bring no weaponry, an anvil, lots of alcohol, at least 3 female dogs, 1 male dog, one breeding pair of additional livestock, and all the food I can squeeze in with the leftovers. With the new underground caverns I no longer strictly require at least a brook in every embark.
Logged
I'm Digging Deeper... AGAIN... You Should Too!

Dig Deeper GOLD - 475+ items of new content including; new plants, new creatures, new metals, new woods, new gems, new stones, new crafts and much, much more.

AncientEnemy

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Answer is always POUR MAGMA ON IT
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 03:56:11 am »

for skills, I tend to focus on what I'm going to need right off the bat. for less immediate concerns, I can just 'train' my dwarves as I go.

Leader with all his points distributed through negotiation/bookeeper/appraiser/etc
3 dwarves with proficient mining
1 proficient grower
1 proficient brewer
1 proficient cook

Tarran

  • Bay Watcher
  • Kind of back, but for how long?!
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 04:11:37 am »

The area I look for is one with no aquifer, has sand, and has plenty of trees, mountains are optional.

I go with: (every skill has five points put into it)
2 miners/engravers (when they are not mining they are engraving)
1 mason/carpenter (deals with all that stuff)
1 mechanic/stone crafter (when he is not making mechanisms he is making crafts)
1 woodcutter/architect (when not cutting wood he is designing buildings)
1 grower/brewer (deals with all my needs this early in the game)

As for equipment, I dump one of my axes, I also dump types of food I don't need and add more to others that are already on the list, I don't usually bring medical equipment since if I ever need it I'm likely screwed anyway, I bring a wide variety and a large amounts of seeds for my crops, and that's about it, pets are last on my 'must have' list, so they often get left out.
Logged
Quote from: Phantom
Unknown to most but the insane and the mystics, Tarran is actually Earth itself, as Earth is sentient like that planet in Avatar. Originally Earth used names such as Terra on the internet, but to protect it's identity it changed letters, now becoming the Tarran you know today.
Quote from: Ze Spy
Tarran has the "Tarran Bug", a bug which causes the affected character to repeatedly hit teammates while dual-wielding instead of whatever the hell he is shooting at.

ZeroGravitas

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2010, 04:26:24 am »

I find proficient mining is a total waste. Mining skills up so fast, you might as well just put them as novice miners since you get the most bang for your buck at the first level (dabbling -> novice is really slow). Put your points in harder things, like engraving (for smoothing those cavern floors!) and masonry.
Logged

Ashery

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 04:34:41 am »

Anvils are so cheap now there really isn't a reason not to take one.

Typical item setup:

12 Bauxite
12 Gypsum
Anvil
8 cassiterite
8 copper nuggets (Or some ore of copper)
10 bit. coal
1 refined coal (To get the bit. coal conversion started earlier)
11 of three different cheap foods
16 of all booze types
6 of all seed types
~12 cave spider silk threads
~12 tower caps
3 dogs (2f, 1m)

Think that's it for items. The metalsmith quickly turns out four picks, two axes, and a set of bronze armor, in that order, while the rest of the dwarves start hauling goods towards the fort's future entrance. The thread is used for ropes, hospital supplies, and bags if I need extra. The bauxite and gypsum are taken just in case. The tower caps are unnecessary as well, but I've got a soft spot for its look.

Planned skill setup for the next fort:
Military: 5 armor use, 5 dodge. Possibly a mix of dodge and shield use instead of max dodge, but that's up in the air. Set to start training the moment goods are hauled inside the fort's entrance. Also does woodcutting as needed.
Doctor/Leader: 1 appraise, 2 diagnose, 2 bone doctor, 2 surgeon, 2 wood dresser, 1 suture. Also serves as one of my primary miners and, once replacement miners come, the fort's first bookkeeper as well.
Farmer/Cook: 4 farming, 5 cooking, 1 armorsmith. Does most of the early hauling grunt work, but eventually is restricted only to food related activites. No mining is done in order to keep armorsmithing as the highest moodable skill.
Farmer/Brewer: 4 farming, 5 brewing, 1 armorsmith. Same as the cook.
Weapon/Armorsmith: 5 armorsmith, 5 weaponsmith. Does a sizable amount of the early mining, but is removed from duty before the mining skill gets too high.
Mason: 5 mason, 5 building design. Can help out with mining if necessary, but is usually busy constructing buildings or helping the farmers haul goods.
Carpenter/Mechanic: 5 carpentry, 5 mechanic. An odd mix, but mechanisms are my primary export.

Site wise, the closest thing I have to a requirement is that some surface water needs to be present. Flux is damn useful, especially sedimentary layers, but not a requirement by any means. Flowing water is a bonus as well, but more for artificial lake/waterfall creation than fortress survival. First thing my miners are tasked with is digging a cistern that, prior to being used as an actual cistern, will house my first temporary farms.

And I'm not sure where Proteus gets the idea that bone carving is useless. Bone bolts aren't as useful for use against armored opponents, but they're more than adequate for hunting and training.

Edit: Points in engraving? That's one of the easiest (Even if not the quickest) skills to level due to having vast amounts of walls and floors that will need to be smoothed. I find it best to grab three early immigrants and have them start smoothing stone (All other jobs but burial and basic healthcare disabled). I'll need to check out the mining tip, though, as that might change my start a bit.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 04:40:24 am by Ashery »
Logged

ZeroGravitas

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 04:36:15 am »

Anvils are so cheap now there really isn't a reason not to take one.

Typical item setup:

1 refined coal (To get the bit. coal conversion started earlier)
 

You could save 7 points if you took a wood log and made it into Charcoal at the Wood Burner. ;-)
Logged

Ashery

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2010, 04:41:26 am »

Anvils are so cheap now there really isn't a reason not to take one.

Typical item setup:

1 refined coal (To get the bit. coal conversion started earlier)
 

You could save 7 points if you took a wood log and made it into Charcoal at the Wood Burner. ;-)

And that's one more building that needs to be built before the smelter. If I *needed* those seven points, I'd take wood instead, but you start with more than enough points to avoid needing to build a wood burner.
Logged

Jhoosier

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • http://wilcotangofoxtrot.blogspot.com
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2010, 04:48:31 am »

For people recommending taking stones, I'd say bring bauxite along before anything else.  You may not find it on your map and it can be useful for building magma-proof pumps, mechanisms, etc.  And I think it's the same price, isn't it?
Logged

Ashery

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2010, 04:51:09 am »

For people recommending taking stones, I'd say bring bauxite along before anything else.  You may not find it on your map and it can be useful for building magma-proof pumps, mechanisms, etc.  And I think it's the same price, isn't it?

Yup.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6