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Yes, they would make good additions to the worlds of DF

81 (90%)

No, they are abominations that should never appear in DF

1 (1.1%)

I don't care about trees

4 (4.4%)

I don't care about DF

4 (4.4%)

Total Members Voted: 90

[Vulkanis]

Elves likely have no worries about hollowing out the dead heartwood, which is mostly useless to trees. But if you dare to cut the living sapwood...

The idea of many dead trees amongst a forest of living ones is somewhat hard to follow, perhaps Elven leaders can just have on large dead and hollowed out tree to live in that is technically an Elven town center similar to the Human Inns. 

[Andeerz]

I don't think the elves would want to hollow out the tree.  That would require cutting through some sapwood and inevitably harming the tree.  Being able to cause trees to grow into desired shapes or just plain building on 'em seems more there style in my opinion.  The trees should still be minable.  That's the dwarf's, human's, and gobbo's job. 

[sphr]

wait.. giant trees?.. He's a elf! GET HIM!!

This thread seems to EMPOWER ELVES!
SILENCE THE BLASPHEMER IMMEDIATELY!

I don't deny that a part of me wonders what it feels like to play dwarves turned mad into tree-hugger hippies, or elves, but other parts of me wonders at what "traditional" dwarves will interact with such giant trees, use them as construction materials? new method to draw water (alternative to dealing with aquifier?) or simply wanting to start a fire that will push your framerate down to 2 for the next N hours just burning up 20-tile tall trees and generating smoke and ash..  mff.. mff.  MWAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha.....

But if we had giant trees, we could cut them down!

Oh yes: imagine that you can help improve framerate while being able to create clear sand non-stop now that wood is not a problem.  would be interesting if say just cutting the giant tree in a z-level will cause the tree to TIMBER!!!!!!! and then just pick up the wood pieces that literally rained.... well, we all have dreams (esp in magma/obsidian-rich but tree-deprived regions)

There's something wrong with the poll though, there are no votes against giant trees...

Hmm I tot I capture most of the sides being categorized... option 2 votes against giant trees.

Stupid question, but if you don't care about DF, why would you be on the forums?

Think you may not know human nature well enough.  Some of those who chose that option will be jokers, and others... well, you'll be surprised   

A gigantic tree, collapsed into thousands of charcoal-burnable logs, would be just as good as a magma pipe for fueling a booming metalworking industry.  Raze and burn.  It is dwarfy.

Oh yes... think I mentioned this before, great we share similar visions.... Mwahahaha...  Now if only we can manufacture dwarvern chainsaws to be used in place of axes, both as weapon and as tree harvesters...

Not trying to end the conversation, just adding details of what has been discussed before. My search seems to indicate that not a lot has been said, so there is a lot to discuss here. Below are what I was able to find.

It is in Toady's plan, specifically this is part of:

Core88, PROPER ELVES: As with the dwarves, the current elves, especially their sites, suffer from a lack of almost everything. Multi-tile trees, how the druids and the regional forces interact, their relationship with animals and the animal peoples, their dining habits in-game rather than just in world generation...

Some previous discussions:
Wood and Trees, v2.0 - August 10, 2007 (long treatise on trees in general)
   
Flora & Fungi - February 10, 2010 (details about forests)

Elves living in tree cities definitely does seem to be part of Toady's vision of cannibalistic elves though!

Thanks for the info.  I DID do a search and found nothing but I just realised after I do it one more time again that I probably did the search in the modding sub-forum only which is why it did not turn up any results (the second time I search was from the root forum).  I apologize if anybody feels like this is doubled-info.

After reading some, I think there are some diff in what I am writing though, particularly, I wrote this in a way that implementation etc is FEASIBLE wrt to current DF versions, (not totally about dreams, ideals etc)  Most of the dynamics that I mentioned here are in game in some form or another already (e.g. water absorbing tiles). iow, this post is implementing giant trees not as entity (may not even have real entity concept to DF like other "normal" trees) but as a part of terrain (there won't even be visible tree growth, not in a dwarf generation or three, well at least that is the official excuse until terrain modifiers like erupting volcano falls in place).  Still, I do sincerely hope that what I put up here will be contributive in nature, apologies to those who think this is redundant.

Do elves need to hollow out trees though? It doesn't seem to be in line with their philosophy to rape forests just to make buildings. Such a tree would certainly rot, die and collapse without handwaving like to magic so they're not even worth considering as a build option for other races.

Tents and treehouses seem more likely. Not that I'd mind seeing trees be a bit bigger and meaningful.

Do elves need to hollow out trees though? It doesn't seem to be in line with their philosophy to rape forests just to make buildings. Such a tree would certainly rot, die and collapse without handwaving like to magic so they're not even worth considering as a build option for other races.

Tents and treehouses seem more likely. Not that I'd mind seeing trees be a bit bigger and meaningful.

Actually, a tree's circulatory system is near the tree bark (outer perimeter of tree).  A tree can be hollow and still survive (to some extent).

I don't think the elves would want to hollow out the tree.  That would require cutting through some sapwood and inevitably harming the tree.  Being able to cause trees to grow into desired shapes or just plain building on 'em seems more there style in my opinion.  The trees should still be minable.  That's the dwarf's, human's, and gobbo's job. 

Elves likely have no worries about hollowing out the dead heartwood, which is mostly useless to trees. But if you dare to cut the living sapwood...

I don't think the elves would want to hollow out the tree.  That would require cutting through some sapwood and inevitably harming the tree.  Being able to cause trees to grow into desired shapes or just plain building on 'em seems more there style in my opinion.  The trees should still be minable.  That's the dwarf's, human's, and gobbo's job. 

True, if we want to keep the continuity of fantasic realism, prob non-elves will be the main people doing all sorts of destructive modifications/digging to trees, but we can cook up some excuse for elves as well (people are good at that!), e.g. Each elf must upon reaching adulthood, go to one of the "sacred" trees (just trees big and old enough) and dig/carve out a block of wood from its heart to make a bow, the sign of being a member of the elven adult society.  Or simply just: carving is ok as long as it is small (a debt borrowed from the mother tree) and special care not to harm the tree more than necessary (an analogy is the tree-elf symbiont relationship, where elves can be seen like pet woodpeckers that the tree keeps to peck out all the worms/dwarves that comes close), so it is ok that elves can dig small rooms into the heart of tree (but try to leave bark area intact, both as support and to preserve tree circulation)

Do elves need to hollow out trees though? It doesn't seem to be in line with their philosophy to rape forests just to make buildings. Such a tree would certainly rot, die and collapse without handwaving like to magic so they're not even worth considering as a build option for other races.

Tents and treehouses seem more likely. Not that I'd mind seeing trees be a bit bigger and meaningful.

We can always just "add" a new tree that elves use specifically to live in, that could be carved out and lived in without "technically" harming nature. But normal trees keep their circulatory systems inside their bark so a tree can still be hollowed out and living to an extent, I'd imagine the tree to have possible smoothed branches so they could be stood on, but they wouldn't have any sort of order to them, considering killing off the branches of a tree and its leaves is like cutting off a fish's gills (sorta) I wouldn't expect elves to make any sort of carvings or contructions on or from the tree.

But if all the elves are in trees then theres no challenge to slaughtering them anymore, All I have to do is hit G select the tree and watch them fry. (not in any seriousness obviously)

One of the images I found above as this bloated tree thingy, which could be a special kind of tree that has a natural cavities in them.  Elves can live in these trees with simple modifications, but in return, will care for the trees symbiont style (yeah i admit. just another excuse to allow elves to at least have the nerve to cut out a door or a window)

Elves likely have no worries about hollowing out the dead heartwood, which is mostly useless to trees. But if you dare to cut the living sapwood...

The idea of many dead trees amongst a forest of living ones is somewhat hard to follow, perhaps Elven leaders can just have on large dead and hollowed out tree to live in that is technically an Elven town center similar to the Human Inns. 

Living in a dead tree could be like living in a mausoleum for elves... but that doesn't bother the other races besides, a tall standing tree could inspire some interesting mega-carving projects (which previously have be to built up like pyramids, with trees, we can do it top-down: i.e. build up scaffolding to reach top, then start carving, deconstructing the scaffolding as we go down)

[FluffyToast J]

I don't care about DF - 2 votes

WHAT. Surely these people are being sarcastic. 'Fess up, people. The magma wont hurt... much...

[Renault]

All I have to say, aside from the fact these trees would be pretty cool, is that sphr's recent comment was frighteningly long.

[Misterstone]

These are already planned I am pretty sure, but it might be a long time before you see them.  I remember in one of the many FOTF threads I once asked about this, and Toady himself said that he would like to eventually have giant z-level spanning trees with walkable branches, etc. and Elves building cities amongst them.  IIRC.

[cdawg]

Yes please!  giant trees!  actually i don't really care if we get giant hollow-able avatar-style tree worlds, but the trees seem tragically undersized as is.  what kind of tree produces only one log, anyway?  have you ever cut down an adult tree?  there's more than one -wooden training sword- worth, i can tell you.  also... multi-tile trees is the first step towards multi-tile creatures.... 

[Renault]

  have you ever cut down an adult tree?

...you make this sound like a fairly happenstance occurence.

[cdawg]

it is, for some us!

[cganya]

  have you ever cut down an adult tree?

...you make this sound like a fairly happenstance occurence.

why not? i've done it several times and i'm no lumberjack.

[Renault]

  have you ever cut down an adult tree?

...you make this sound like a fairly happenstance occurence.

why not? i've done it several times and i'm no lumberjack.

What forested alpine nation/inland rural state do you live in that you regularly cut down adult trees, without being a lumberjack?

[cdawg]

i live in virginia and we have an enormous, wooded back yard.  from time to time i've had to take down trees or parts of trees in order to keep them from falling onto our house, or to use the wood.  if you know how to cut down a tree safely it's better (well, cheaper) than buying lumber at home depot.  for instance recently i built a pull-up bar outside using a couple logs and an old lead pipe

[cdawg]

but anyway this is all pretty irrelevant to the topic of multi-tile trees 

[Renault]

i live in virginia and we have an enormous, wooded back yard.  from time to time i've had to take down trees or parts of trees in order to keep them from falling onto our house, or to use the wood.  if you know how to cut down a tree safely it's better (well, cheaper) than buying lumber at home depot.  for instance recently i built a pull-up bar outside using a couple logs and an old lead pipe

Whoa. Thats actually pretty cool. I live in SF and a 'backyard' is sort of a funny idea. We sort of have a 'cement area' between the back of our house and the back of the next, but it just doesnt seem the same.
But yeah. Big trees. DF could use them; it'd be cool.
That multi-tile issue is the problem, though. Toady doesnt seem excited to implement multi-tile creatures, so the odds of him implementing multi-tile trees might be a ways off. Thoughts?

[Soralin]

Well multi-tile trees should be easier than multi-tile creatures, because trees don't have to do much pathfinding.