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[Vester]

Unrealistic = Badass. Especially considering that he can still kick or bite someone to death without his axe hands.

[EagleV]

Well, I should have added that these little things are why I love Dwarf Fortress.

[Mechanoid]

One thing I've noticed about arena mode is that if you add 'iron gauntlets' from the menu it only adds one, leaving the other hand bare. Same goes for boots.

The trick is to assign them 2 handwear and 2 footwear.
At least that's what needs to be done in regular fortress mode uniform/equipment settings.

[Shinziril]

This also applies to creating creatures in Arena Mode.

[zagibu]

Yeah, I've now started redoing the tests with a modded dwarf with average attributes. Additionally, I'm providing him with a chain mail shirt of the tested metal, and with 2  gauntlets/boots. I've also included a face mask, to counter the eye/ear/cheek/lip/throat violations, but the masks don't seem to do anything. Also, I've noticed, you can't give them chain leggings and greaves. They will just drop the leggings. Which isn't a problem, since greaves seem to cover the legs completely, unlike a breastplate, which doesn't cover the arms.

[Chronas]

yep, the only difference between the two is that leggings are elastic and greaves requires 1 bar more to make -according to the raws

[zilpin]

Unrealistic = Badass. Especially considering that he can still kick or bite someone to death without his axe hands.

It's only a flesh wound.
Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

[TravelingHobo]

How does Bismuth Bronze figure into everything? Categorically worse than regular bronze?

[Todestool]

How does Bismuth Bronze figure into everything? Categorically worse than regular bronze?

They are identical, stat-wise.

[TravelingHobo]

How does Bismuth Bronze figure into everything? Categorically worse than regular bronze?

They are identical, stat-wise.

Huh. Thank you.

[zagibu]

Hehe, the tests take a lot longer now that the arms are covered completely, so I kind of have to revise my earlier comments about axes being very deadly against all armor. I still haven't gathered all axes test data, because the combat logs now grow a lot longer. I even had to give the new average dwarven race the noexert tag, because otherwise the fights would sometimes end with the unarmed "victim" strangulating the armed "attacker", who fell to the ground due to overexertion.

So far I have made two notable discoveries:
- silver can break bones better through any metal mail than copper (might have to do with density + molar mass)
- there seems to be some kind of armor wear in the game, as after having deflected many blows, bones suddenly start to get shattered through gauntlets and high boots (seen with silver against any armor and with iron against copper)

Expect the full axes test table tomorrow.

[Rawl]

Decided to check Axe Vs Spear. Some of the earlier posts made it sound that axe is more or less

THE weapon of choice and spear wasn't so hot. So I decided to pit them against each other 

in the arena. Same stats for each dwarf. At first the Axedwarf one everyfight no contest. Then i

took away the Speardwarf's shield. Spear dwarf never lost a fight.. almost never made it back in

one piece but had always won. Kick it up to adamantine everything and the spear got nastier. (by

the way, all skills were set to Competent).


EDIT: I took my various one armed Spear victors and continued to pit them against fully armed

Axemen. Even with one arm  they continued to dominate. It got creepier as One Arm got higher skills in fighter he seemed to always disarm the enemy first (always aiming at the weapon arm first) now to figure out if this is intended or not...

[Narmio]

- there seems to be some kind of armor wear in the game, as after having deflected many blows, bones suddenly start to get shattered through gauntlets and high boots (seen with silver against any armor and with iron against copper)

This might be caused by one dwarf falling over from pain - prone critters take quite a bit more damage, it seems.

But there do appear to be other factors.  It's not weapon skill, it's not Pain. 

One way to test if it's armour wear would be to pick up the armour used by a dead test dwarf with another "adventurer" dwarf, and see if it was performing badly.  My theory is that it's something to do with either the attacker or the victim, rather than their equipment.

Also, I found that unarmed unskilled wrestlers grew too deadly given the length of time these armoured tests go on - the "victim" would get to Legendary Wrestler and then joint-lock the attacker into unconsciousness.  So I have my victims featherwood training swords.  Guaranteed to not even dent naked skin at Legendary skill levels!

[Narmio]

Decided to check Axe Vs Spear. Some of the earlier posts made it sound that axe is more or less

THE weapon of choice and spear wasn't so hot. So I decided to pit them against each other 

in the arena. Same stats for each dwarf. At first the Axedwarf one everyfight no contest. Then i

took away the Speardwarf's shield. Spear dwarf never lost a fight.. almost never made it back in

one piece but had always won. Kick it up to adamantine everything and the spear got nastier. (by

the way, all skills were set to Competent)

Wait, so spears are better without a shield than with?  Can you check to see whether the speardwarf is actually multigrasping the spear?  That's very interesting.

Or am I reading that wrong?

Also, spears are actually pretty good weapons, it's just that spear-strikes don't kill immediately or even disable their victims, it takes a long while for even a totally swiss-cheesed speardwarf victim to bleed out.  And in that time they can easily cut off poor speardwarf's limbs shoudl they have a weapon more blessed with instant gratification.

Interestingly, this makes spears (and menacing spikes) a great weapon trap weapon - because targets very rarely get killed instantly the traps almost never jam.  The goblins take a few more steps and then bleed out.  Except weapon traps are really terrible against armour now.  They all have normal attack velocities (1000) and I suspect they're not getting any bonuses to that from their "strength" or anything.  Goblins routinely only get bruised by my high-quality steel spikes.

[Rawl]

Decided to check Axe Vs Spear. Some of the earlier posts made it sound that axe is more or less

THE weapon of choice and spear wasn't so hot. So I decided to pit them against each other 

in the arena. Same stats for each dwarf. At first the Axedwarf one everyfight no contest. Then i

took away the Speardwarf's shield. Spear dwarf never lost a fight.. almost never made it back in

one piece but had always won. Kick it up to adamantine everything and the spear got nastier. (by

the way, all skills were set to Competent)

Wait, so spears are better without a shield than with?  Can you check to see whether the speardwarf is actually multigrasping the spear?  That's very interesting.

Or am I reading that wrong?

Also, spears are actually pretty good weapons, it's just that spear-strikes don't kill immediately or even disable their victims, it takes a long while for even a totally swiss-cheesed speardwarf victim to bleed out.  And in that time they can easily cut off poor speardwarf's limbs shoudl they have a weapon more blessed with instant gratification.

Interestingly, this makes spears (and menacing spikes) a great weapon trap weapon - because targets very rarely get killed instantly the traps almost never jam.  The goblins take a few more steps and then bleed out.  Except weapon traps are really terrible against armour now.  They all have normal attack velocities (1000) and I suspect they're not getting any bonuses to that from their "strength" or anything.  Goblins routinely only get bruised by my high-quality steel spikes.

Indeed. Giving a spearman (a two handed weapon) a sheild prevents the speardwarf from weilding the weapon. This is slightly odd because sheild/spear has been a historically classic combo. Spearmen should be able to wield a spear and shield in a more defensive style as opposed to no shield which should be an aggressive style, but currently the only option appears to be no sheild.

A dwarf can wield a spear and shield, however he is more effective with just the spear. I rechecked and indeed he does stab with the spear in only one hand and the shield in the other, but he seems to penetrate more when he has just the spear.

Further research: Adamantine everything both with shields and respective weapons. Results: Spear dwarf no longer gets injured when using adamantine set with a shield. Adamantine Spear n Shield vs Adamanite Axe n Shield: 5:0

Yet another edit: Yes the spearman will multi-grasp the spear if he has no shield. misread a read out. NO he was not multigrasping...

Yet another, another edit: Take away Mr. Axeman's shield as well and then HE always wins. makes me start to question the value of shields in melee cause at this point its a game of weight=speed. (Assuming even stats)