Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Snall]

To be fair, warhammers/hammers, etc are designed to shatter bone THROUGH armor.  They're the preferred weapons when facing platemail. 

[EagleV]

To be fair, warhammers/hammers, etc are designed to shatter bone THROUGH armor.  They're the preferred weapons when facing platemail. 

Not only that, they are also meant to dent armor, leaving the wearer in a, well, very uncomfortable position.

[zagibu]

Yeah, but initial tests show that warhammers are pretty useless against armored targets now.

I didn't know that adding iron gauntlets adds only 1 gauntlet, so I think I might have to redo the tests....sigh.

Also, interesting stuff the two guys with the long posts found. Might want to sum this info up somehow, so not everybody has to digest the walls of text.

[Vester]

To be fair, warhammers/hammers, etc are designed to shatter bone THROUGH armor.  They're the preferred weapons when facing platemail. 

Not only that, they are also meant to dent armor, leaving the wearer in a, well, very uncomfortable position.

Specifically, the uncomfortable position of having your ribcage shoved into your lungs.

[Moron]

What doesn't seem to have been taken into account is that a weapon made of a heavier material ought to be slower and more awkward to swing effectively.

Medieval war hammers and maces were historically useful against plate-armoured opponents, but there are good reasons why they were made of steel and not a denser material like lead. Beyond a certain weight they would have been too heavy to be useful as a weapon, even in the hands of a very strong wielder.

The current system also doesn't take account of the fact that a soft material like lead or gold would quickly be deformed by constant pounding on steel armour, even if it was breaking the opponent's bones at the same time.

[jokermatt999]

Zagibu and narmio, thank you. This kind of research is exactly what we need to figure out just how the new combat system works.

I'd say it'd be cool to have some numbers on what's the best material for warhammers, or the effectiveness of spears vs. opponents, but it seems like they're kind of broken until some raw changes are made.

Also, since the values are just placeholders right now, would anyone happen to actually know the correct ones? I checked Wolfram Alpha, but I don't know enough (yet?) to understand the data it's throwing at me.

[Shadowlord]

I don't think you would find what you're looking for there, the information you want is about  metallurgical properties, not atoms (you certainly won't find anything about steel or bronze). Maybe you can find the information on http://www.matweb.com/index.aspx

However there are a ridiculous number of variations on each metal alloy (like bronze), and I don't have a clue which one is the historically used bronze for weapons and armor, or the historically used steel, etc.

[Wavecutter]

One item people seem to be leaving out is that heavier, denser materials are often quite soft and will deform when striking harder objects.

[PencilinHand]

One item people seem to be leaving out is that heavier, denser materials are often quite soft and will deform when striking harder objects.

Object damage/deformation isn't in yet.

---

On a separate note I have been working on crude program to try to parse though gamelog.txt for arena mode and output the data to another .txt file in a format that would be easily imported to Excel for graphing and statistical analysis.

[Johnny]

Best way to negate the randomizing effect of attributes is to mod a race with no attribute variation.  The standard strength distribution on a dwarf is
PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250
which is more than enough to skew your data.  I also don't know if arena-made creatures are subject to the "adventurer effect" (where they are created with all physical attributes at the highest possible base values) or not; it could render my point moot if it does.

[Chronas]

one of the overpowered faults to armor is that it is always assumed to be padded. if a giant smacks you in the chest with a lead maul it may glance off  but damn, you're going to feel it, no matter what material your armor is made of. plate should only negate slashing and stabbing attacks, the impact absorption should be covered by padding underneath -your giant rat leather shirt should actually have a use. not to mention that the addition of adamantine quilted undershirts should help this along.

[Proteus]

What doesn't seem to have been taken into account is that a weapon made of a heavier material ought to be slower and more awkward to swing effectively.

Medieval war hammers and maces were historically useful against plate-armoured opponents, but there are good reasons why they were made of steel and not a denser material like lead. Beyond a certain weight they would have been too heavy to be useful as a weapon, even in the hands of a very strong wielder.

The current system also doesn't take account of the fact that a soft material like lead or gold would quickly be deformed by constant pounding on steel armour, even if it was breaking the opponent's bones at the same time.

Of course the real medieval warhammers were probably also shaped differently from the dwarven ones.
If I think of dwarven warhammers (especially if I think about the wounds they make) I think of a warhammer like the one used by one of the 2 weapon masters of Thulsa Doom in Conan 1.
I.e. a large hammerlike blunt object.

Most of the real medieval warhammers however would be rather shaped like picks (for example Bec de corbins), often with a long shaft to be better able to swing the weapon.
Therefore I think, a real medieval warhammer would, in contrast to the warhammer in DF, be able not only to cause bruises and broken bones, but also (if the picklike head overcomes the armor) to cause broken tissues, severed arteries and bleeding.
These real medieval warhammers, if implemented this way by Toady would probably really get deadlier with Steel or Adamantine as their beaklike head would be better able to overcome the enemy armor if harder material is used.

[tompliss]

Little reaction, not that much in the topic, but I was wondering :
What if you tell a dwarf to get an Hammer and an axe, in fight (with both skills trained) ?
Does he use only one ?

[Chronas]

he will use the one in his main hand, therefore the first one he picked up -no matter what his skills are. should his main hand be separated from his body, he will use his off hand weapon.

[EagleV]

he will use the one in his main hand, therefore the first one he picked up -no matter what his skills are. should his main hand be separated from his body, he will use his off hand weapon.

'Hey, Urist, why are you carrying two axes?' 'Well, that's in case my right hand gets chopped off'
Something seems a bit unrealistic here