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[BigD145]

Thermal vents- A power generator that uses a fan blade to capture the hot air rising off magma, like a windmill turned on it's side. As long as it has an unblocked Z path (if water can fall down it, consider it unblocked) above it to the open sky and below it to magma, it produces power (something like 10).
2x2 with 1 corner being the fan square (where the path checking is made from), requires 1 metal fan blade, 1 mechanism, and 2 building material.

It should produce AND use 10 power. Sluggish magma and all that.

[G-Flex]

The problem with a "thermal windmill" is that it would need to be made of rather strong material and require very low-friction parts in order to function at all, and the hot air rising out of a mostly-enclosed space like that would provide very, very little force. I doubt you'd be able to get very much out of it at all.

[Schilcote]

What I really want to see are these three things: A: Magma-powered steam engines B: Propellers and C: Literally floating fortresses. See where I'm going yet?

That is called steampunk, and belongs in steampunk games.  Toady does not want to make a steampunk game - he has stated, himself, that he wants to stick around to a 1400s era tech base.

There's steampunk, and then there's steam power. Having steam engines doesn't automatically make something steam-punk, especially considering that we had steam power in real life....

I'm not even talking about a full steam engine. Just a ducted fan and some water over a pool of magma. Lemme draw a graphic...

Well actually, maybe it isn't so intuitive for a dwarf... but still, I'm not talking about a steam engine here, here's the dwarven thought process.

Water+magma=moving air (steam)
Moving air+windmill=power
Therefore, if I build a sideways windmill over a pool of magma and add water, I'll get power!

Something along those lines.

[DG]

Did someone say steampunk?

[Squirrelloid]

Useful steam engines weren't produced until the 1500's, but the idea and poorly performing designs have been around since at least the first century. With the ability to dig down to magma, creating a more practical steam engine seems like it would definitely be possible for our dwarves.

Regarding the original idea, if we can pump magma around like a fluid, it should work like a fluid for a water wheel made of magma safe materials. I'd view this as an extremely low priority and the slow speed of magma means it would be more useful for torque than speed, but with a gearbox that might not matter.

This isn't quite true - the Romans designed a working steam engine, but they had no use for it.  (Slave) Labor was cheap, so what do they need an engine for - it cost more to fuel to the engine than to do the same work with slaves!

That puts the first steam engine well before the alotted technological time period.

[The Architect]

Right, but you have (perhaps unintentionally) brought up another good point:

Why not strap a donkey to a pole on an axle and create a source of power? With (realistically) 2 dwarfs maintaining a few dozen of them, and a few dozen donkeys, you'd have a decent amount of power. Donkeys can pull something for a good 8 hours per day, and you'd put them in shifts.

[Farce]

Isn't Adamantine magma-proof and really light?  It could be used instead of heavier iron, no?

[Schilcote]

Right, but you have (perhaps unintentionally) brought up another good point:

Why not strap a donkey to a pole on an axle and create a source of power? With (realistically) 2 dwarfs maintaining a few dozen of them, and a few dozen donkeys, you'd have a decent amount of power. Donkeys can pull something for a good 8 hours per day, and you'd put them in shifts.

Maybe we should be able to do that with dwarves as well, Conan-style. You saw what happened to Conan...

[Koozer]

Idea!
a construction very much like a pump, but only requires one mechanism and one axle, and has the operator generating raw power instead of pumping water. The ability to attach tame animals to it would be amazing too, or captured goblins/elves.

On steam power: I think it should be possible, but hugely inefficient, complicated and time consuming to construct. It should require steam generation, and a turbine positioned in a flow to generate a modicum of power. Of course the system above would be more efficient, but what's more dwarfy than a massively dangerous, over-engineered solution to a non-existent problem?

[Rowanas]

P.S. While Toady (armok be with him) doesn't intend to aid steampunk enthusiasts, if he makes the game as rich as he apparently intends to, while keeping the mutability of the raws, people desiring a steampunk floating fortress will be able to by hook or by crook.

[Squirrelloid]

It should probably be pointed out that a dwarf operating a screwpump does generate power.  Just actually pump water, and put a water wheel downstream.  Dwarves are quite efficient at generating power.

Rowanas: Steam power =/= steam punk.  Steam punk is a genre in which steam engines are used to power things which would be difficult or impossible to engineer.  Asking for steam power is not the same as asking for steam-powered giant robots and airplanes.  (You may note most steampunk occurs in the Victorian era, well after the commercilization of the steam engine).

[Rowanas]

Rowanas: Steam power =/= steam punk.  Steam punk is a genre in which steam engines are used to power things which would be difficult or impossible to engineer.  Asking for steam power is not the same as asking for steam-powered giant robots and airplanes.  (You may note most steampunk occurs in the Victorian era, well after the commercilization of the steam engine).

Quite aware of the meaning of steampunk, thanks (insert irritated sarcasm here).

What I'm saying is that, because of the mutability of the raws, we will, given steam power, be able to alter the world, objects, dwarves, even the steam itself to produce things that should not be. Having a floating fortress and a network of giant dwarf-produced magma-steam vents that the fortress must occasionally stop by to regain altitude sounds pretty steampunkish to me, or is that a common sight in whichever universe it is that you live in?

[pra]

Idea!
a construction very much like a pump, but only requires one mechanism and one axle, and has the operator generating raw power instead of pumping water. The ability to attach tame animals to it would be amazing too, or captured goblins/elves.

yes, i was thinking about a similar device once. It would be like a giant hamster wheel, where you can assign animals or trapped enemies, like it was a cage.

Or the conan wheel, where you can assign up to 4 creatures and/or order dwarves to turn it, like the "start pumping manually" thing, and then up to 4 dwarves come running and start generating power. Would require logs, a mechanism and 4 chains.

[Andeerz]

On steam power: I think it should be possible, but hugely inefficient, complicated and time consuming to construct. It should require steam generation, and a turbine positioned in a flow to generate a modicum of power. Of course the system above would be more efficient, but what's more dwarfy than a massively dangerous, over-engineered solution to a non-existent problem?

Heck yeah!  I like that idea.  If decent pressure, temperature, and fluid physics ever get implemented, I could definitely see this coming to fruition.  I also could see dwarves utilizing geothermal energy, including that derived from magma, for similar things as it was used for historically, namely heating of living areas and water for bathing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power#History).

On the flip side, and I don't see this necessarily being a problem, such an improvement to physics would make exploring and digging into hotter parts of the underground very dangerous.

Also, the animal/person powered power-generator is an absolutely awesome idea!

[Atanamis]

This isn't quite true - the Romans designed a working steam engine, but they had no use for it.  (Slave) Labor was cheap, so what do they need an engine for - it cost more to fuel to the engine than to do the same work with slaves!

I never said it didn't work in Roman times (in fact I said exactly the opposite). What I said was that it was inefficient. Something which costs more than other available methods of doing the same thing is by definition inefficient. The reason why Romans didn't use steam engines was that their designs were inefficient. And yes, using anachronistic steam power is the definition of steam punk.

On steam power: I think it should be possible, but hugely inefficient, complicated and time consuming to construct. It should require steam generation, and a turbine positioned in a flow to generate a modicum of power. Of course the system above would be more efficient, but what's more dwarfy than a massively dangerous, over-engineered solution to a non-existent problem?

This is pretty much my position as well. Require expensive magma safe components and complicated arrangements to produce almost no power. Since steam power should be mostly a novelty item, I would think it should wait until more useful game elements are complete.