Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Narmio]

I've seen similar looking results with unarmoured combatants of various races.  Virtually every hit to an extremity is a sever.

I think that probably needs to be tweaked downwards.  While a strong and skilled axedwarf with a masterworked steel axe should have no trouble causing bits to go everywhere, that shouldn't be the case for everyone.  The bones in limbs are seriously strong and quite thick - hacking through to the bone and then causing a nasty fracture should be pretty common, but actually hacking through an entire femur should require skill, luck, quality equipment *and* strength.  I don't think "weaker" materials (skin, muscle, fat, bone) are currently putting up enough of a fight.

To test this, go buy a roast chicken or leg of lamb and take a swing at it with a steel kitchen knife.  Unless it's a very sharp cleaver and you know what you're doing, you're not going to go through all that tissue in one swing.  You could even try it with a woodcutting axe and probably wouldn't get through an entire leg bone.

PS:  Please don't go try this without considering the wellbeing of your fingers, toes and kitchen.

[Meanmelter]

ALL THE TEST ARE INCONCLUSIVE!

Why? ELVES DON'T USE METAL! THEY USE WOOD!

[cowofdoom78963]

Why? ELVES DON'T USE METAL! THEY USE WOOD!

It's only becuase elves are so much better then the other races they need to add a handicap just so it's fair.

[rickvoid]

I was going to say, "and this is why we keep them in the bloody forests and let them worship their bloody trees", but that also works.

[Meanmelter]

Why? ELVES DON'T USE METAL! THEY USE WOOD!

It's only becuase elves are so much better then the other races they need to add a handicap just so it's fair.

I'll remember that next time I see *<* prepared Elf Heart *>* or not...

[Tarran]

ALL THE TEST ARE INCONCLUSIVE!

Why? ELVES DON'T USE METAL! THEY USE WOOD!

That may be true in fortress mode, but we are talking about fighting one on one on equal terms.

[o_O[WTFace]]

You inspired me to conduct a similar test. 

-First, a bunch of elves vs a bunch of dwarves everyone level 3 in all relevant skills, with iron shields and axes.  Result = dwarves loose hard, with about a third of the elves surviving (many missing limbs)

-Next, a bunch of goblins vs a bunch of dwarves, everyone skill lvl 3, iron shields/axes.  Result = simmilar to elves.

-Finally, goblins vs *Dwarves* same as before, except this time the gobbos had lvl 1 (novice) skills.  Result = Dwarves win with zero casualties out of 20 or so and no missing limbs.  I wonder if this is because 2 levels was enough to give the dwarves first strike, in addition to other bonuses? 

So dwarves clearly appear inferior to their natural enemies, but not by much.  My guess is arena tests are biased against dwarves because their slight strength and toughness advantages mean fairly little when basically any successful attack gives a huge advantage due to lack of armor + clothes, while their agility (-) is important.  Still though, if a fortress encounters an attack on equal terms it clearly won't end well.  Skill seems hugely important. 

edit: wow important typo, thanks

[Arkenstone]

i tested this at grandmaster skill with addy weapons/armor.
final score: Dwarves-6 Elves-4

My thesis is that with little to no armor, the elf's agility helps it land the first blow, which is almost always fatal; but in the long endurance fight, the dwarf's constitution wins out.

[Tarran]

You inspired me to conduct a similar test. 

-First, a bunch of elves vs a bunch of dwarves everyone level 3 in all relevant skills, with iron shields and axes.  Result = dwarves loose hard, with about a third of the elves surviving (many missing limbs)

-Next, a bunch of goblins vs a bunch of dwarves, everyone skill lvl 3, iron shields/axes.  Result = simmilar to elves.

-Finally, goblins vs elves same as before, except this time the gobbos had lvl 1 (novice) skills.  Result = Dwarves Elves win with zero casualties out of 20 or so and no missing limbs.  I wonder if this is because 2 levels was enough to give the dwarves Elves first strike, in addition to other bonuses? 

So dwarves are clearly inferior to their natural enemies, but not by much.  My guess is arena tests are biased against dwarves because their slight strength and toughness advantages mean fairly little when basically any successful attack gives a huge advantage due to lack of armor + clothes, while their agility (-) is important.  Still though, if a fortress encounters an attack on equal terms it clearly won't end well. 

*Cough*

[Meanmelter]

ALL THE TEST ARE INCONCLUSIVE!

Why? ELVES DON'T USE METAL! THEY USE WOOD!

That may be true in fortress mode, but we are talking about fighting one on one on equal terms.

how is it equal if the 'tree fapping fagots' get 700 speed and dwarves get 900 or something speed? Someone test if the speed has anything to do with this?

[The Eviscerator of Gods]

I know everyone here hates elves and all, but could you please keep gay people out of this?

[Tarran]

ALL THE TEST ARE INCONCLUSIVE!

Why? ELVES DON'T USE METAL! THEY USE WOOD!

That may be true in fortress mode, but we are talking about fighting one on one on equal terms.

how is it equal if the 'tree fapping fagots' get 700 speed and dwarves get 900 or something speed? Someone test if the speed has anything to do with this?

It's fair, it can't be any fairer then if you made them have the exact same stats as dwarves.

'fair' means that no-one has any advantage in equipment or skills, not body.

[dsi1]

i tested this at grandmaster skill with addy weapons/armor.
final score: Dwarves-6 Elves-4

My thesis is that with little to no armor, the elf's agility helps it land the first blow, which is almost always fatal; but in the long endurance fight, the dwarf's constitution wins out.

If I'm not mistaken addy isn't quite the best material now.

[Meanmelter]

ALL THE TEST ARE INCONCLUSIVE!

Why? ELVES DON'T USE METAL! THEY USE WOOD!

That may be true in fortress mode, but we are talking about fighting one on one on equal terms.

how is it equal if the 'tree fapping fagots' get 700 speed and dwarves get 900 or something speed? Someone test if the speed has anything to do with this?

It's fair, it can't be any fairer then if you made them have the exact same stats as dwarves.

'fair' means that no-one has any advantage in equipment or skills, not body.

so they win because they are 'one with nature>' Blasphemy! I will dunk you into a pool of magma! Where are your trees now! Ohhh there on fire now! Now I must make a fort on a elven village and pump magma out of the ground to teach you elfs a lesson on why rock beats tree in 'rock-tree-pickaxe'

[Frumple]

Another minor test for comparison: 65 on 65 elf versus dwarf, no equipment, no skills. Results is 47 living dwarves, 65 dead elves.

Tentative conclusion: when one-shots and severs aren't a major factor, dwarves martial trance wins the fight for 'em.

EDIT: Hurray for round two! With all contestants sporting GM wrestling, striking, kicking, biting, and dodge, but still no equipment, the ultimate results is yet again dwarves, but with the surviving numbers halved at 23. It's notable that this fight took probably three times as long to finish, despite having higher FPS throughout. As conjectured earlier in the thread, dwarves definitely seem to have an endurance advantage over the pointy-eared ones.