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[SeanTucker]

I tested this in the arena 5 times, and the results were... actually very interesting.

Test 1:

Urist, unskilled unarmored dwarf

Cacame, unskilled unarmored elf

Both have iron battle axes.

Cacame immediately chopped Urist's middle finger off, causing it to spray blood. Cacame then took a whack at Urist's left leg, detaching it and sending it flying away. He then hit Urist in the chest with the flat of the axe, bruising his right lung.

Urist then attacked Cacame, but missed, and was rewarded with a hit to the right upper arm that cleanly severed it. Cacame then hacked at Urist's chest with the battle axe, tearing an artery and tearing the right lung apart. Urist immediately bled to death.

Win: Elves

Test 2:

Same parameters.

Urist took Cacame's left lower leg off almost instantly after missing twice. Cacame then hit Urist in the upper body, tearing the fat, and managed to get a lucky hit on Urist's lower body, cutting him in half.

Win: Elves

Test 3:

Same parameters.

Cacame took off Urist's right lower leg. Urist took off Cacame's left upper leg. Cacame took off Urist's right upper leg. Cacame hit Urist in the left lower leg, tearing the muscle, and twisted the axe around. Urist flailed at Cacame for a bit but didn't manage to get a lucky strike. Cacame hit Urist in the upper body, just like in test 2, shattering a rib and tearing the right lung.

Win: Elves

Test 4:

Cacame charged at Urist, tore apart his heart, and cut him in half at the lower body. He then escaped unharmed.

Win: Elves

Test 5:

Urist removed Cacame's left leg with the first blow. He then tore an artery in the elf's chest with his axe and cut the other leg off. Cacame bled to death extremely quickly.

Win: Dwarves

Elves: 4
Dwarves: 1

As much as we may not want to admit it (I personally fed the elves to great whites after the first four tests), elves seem to have better base stats for melee combat than dwarves.

[Iban]

But Elves are pansies, so we win where it matters.

[SeanTucker]

I think the fact that Cacame pretty much buttfucked Urist in 4/5 tests kinda proves you wrong there...

[Iban]

You named him Cacame, what do you expect? Rename him something Elvish, like Daffodil, and we'll see who buttfucks whom.

[Retro]

Dwarves are naturally SPEED:900 (the default) while elves are SPEED:700. As game size doesn't really account for slimness, they're basically giant, fast dwarves. The only reason dwarves normally kick the crap out of elves is because elves are whiny babies who aren't as innately violent and have issues with silly things like 'taking innocent life' and 'harvesting mermaid babies.'

(and please, enough with 'buttfuck')

[Tarran]

Elves don't seem to have the same speed as in 40d, well, at least not defined in a parameter that had 'speed:700' in it...

Go ahead, try it yourself, the only thing that has 'speed:700' in the creature_standard.txt are fairies and pixies.

[Max White]

I was always under the impression that elves fight using mostly natural ability with weak weapons and armor, while dwarfs lack that natural ability and make up for it with kick ass equipment! Humans are sort of 50/50.

So if your going to give dorfs and hippies the same gear, the hipsters have it.

[The Eviscerator of Gods]

Elven superiority is proven once again.

KILL ALL THE FILTHY MOUNTAIN FOLK

[IronyOwl]

Did some tests of my own, as 5 is not a very impressive sample size.

Spoiler: Results (click to show/hide)

Round 1: Elf butchers dwarf, no injuries.
Round 2: Dwarf butchers elf, no injuries.
Round 3: Elf butchers dwarf, no injuries.
Round 4: Elf butchers dwarf, sustains dark yellow injury to left upper leg.
Round 5: Elf butchers dwarf, no injuries.
Round 6: Elf and dwarf struggle for a bit, elf kills dwarf, no injuries.
Round 7: Oops, surviving elf wandered over.
Round 8: Danced briefly, dwarf kills elf; left lower leg and foot are severed.
Round 9: Danced around a bit, dwarf kills elf; upper and lower body dark yellow.
Round 10: Danced very briefly, elf kills dwarf, no injuries.
Round 11: Sigh, magma involved.
Round 12: Elf butchers dwarf, no injuries.

So I got 70% elf wins, 30% dwarf wins. However, 60% of the fights were instagibs as far as I could see, so I'm thinking giving unarmored peasants good weaponry and telling them to have at it isn't a very good measure of a "fight."

So, let's see what happens when they're armed and armored in copper.

Spoiler: Results (click to show/hide)

Round 1: Dwarf disarms (literally) elf, beats him to death eventually with no injuries.
Round 2: Elf disarms dwarf (red lower arm) and eventually kills him with no injuries.
Round 3: Elf pretty much instantly severs dwarf's hand, eventually beats him to death. What are these, lightsabers?
Round 4: Dwarf pretty much instantly puts a dark yellow wound on elf's sword arm, but elf keeps hold and responds by lopping off dwarf's shield arm, eventually winning with dark yellow upper arm and red lower arm.
Round 5: Elf lops of his arm immediately, beats him to death against a wall. No injuries.
Round 6: Dwarf injures elf's shield hand, then knocks him off ledge and jumps down to continue hacking his sword arm off. Tainted, but it seemed like the dwarf had it pretty well in hand before that.

My conclusions? Seems as though untrained, statless elves may indeed be better than their dwarven counterparts.

More importantly, DF fights are apparently lightsaber duels now. I don't know if it's the AI or the mechanics, but they just LOVE black knighting each other.


EDIT: Speaking of knights, tried out some Adequate Fighting/Axe/Dodge/etc. combatants with iron everything. While the fights were longer, not only did they continue to hack off each other's arms, they were prone to counter-hacking and hacking off their other arm as well.

[Iban]

Has anyone considered that when you give squishy things a big axe it's all a matter of who lands a hit first (which Elves have the advantage of)? There's a reason why we don't consider John McThug's Knife User skill when he points a switchblade at us in the dark ally and we don't have our full body iron armor on.

[JoRo]

With no [SPEED:] tag by default, I think AGILITY is defining speed now, and dwarves have [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500] while elves have [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250].  When the first strike is what counts, that seems to give a pretty decisive edge.  Outside of the arena, where the elves will be faffing about with wooden sticks while dwarves are covered in spiked steel plates, it's a bit of a different story.

[Iban]

With no [SPEED:] tag by default, I think AGILITY is defining speed now, and dwarves have [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500] while elves have [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250].  When the first strike is what counts, that seems to give a pretty decisive edge.  Outside of the arena, where the elves will be faffing about with wooden sticks while dwarves are covered in spiked steel plates, it's a bit of a different story.

This is another good point. Elves don't naturally use steel axes. Give one a wooden spear and the other a steel hammer.

[cowofdoom78963]

With no [SPEED:] tag by default, I think AGILITY is defining speed now, and dwarves have [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500] while elves have [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250].  When the first strike is what counts, that seems to give a pretty decisive edge.  Outside of the arena, where the elves will be faffing about with wooden sticks while dwarves are covered in spiked steel plates, it's a bit of a different story.

This is another good point. Elves don't naturally use steel axes. Give one a wooden spear and the other a steel hammer.

Thats cheating though.

We should see who wins in unarmed naked tests.

they wont die in one hit so you can get better results also.

[Maulrus]

OP inspired me to recreate this test, and I more or less confirm his results:

First five fights resulted in Urist's upper body being cut off without even touching Cacame.
Sixth fight resulted in Cacame's upper body being cut off and Urist's right arm being cut off; however, little blood was lost and he survived.

OH GOD

Armless Urist then was sneak attack'd by Cacame, who cut off the rest of his arm, tore open his lung, then CHARGED AND CUT OFF BOTH HIS LEGS.

Poor Urist didn't stand a chance ;c

EDIT: Urist's son made up for it. Kills Cacame once, losing his foot and being permanently restricted to the ground. Then, in a sick act of revenge, he cuts off the next Cacame's foot before cutting off his body.

[Geti]

to counter this, all elf tissue layers should be given a pain receptor double and possibly thinner muscles and fat, to mimic the old damblock stuff.