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[Kagus]

Capntastic, he's being quite civil about a perfectly reasonable concern.  He hasn't been around to witness many bugfix cycles, so he doesn't know how the process tends to go.  I see absolutely no reason for such an aggressive tone.

[Capntastic]

I apologize but there's no way to interpret the thread title as anything other than Maulrus implying that Toady is intending to go out of his way not to fix bugs, which is absurd.

Edit:  The key thing being that it's been just under a week since an enormous release and Toady's indicated many times that he's gearing up for a bugfix marathon, as indicated by the new bug tracker, etc etc etc.

[PsyberianHusky]

Is the silliness of the new weapon system a bug? I kinnda wish adamentium had more punch then a nerf dart. I don't care when its fixed its just I wanna make sure that is gonna be fixed

[Max White]

Is the silliness of the new weapon system a bug? I kinnda wish adamentium had more punch then a nerf dart. I don't care when its fixed its just I wanna make sure that is gonna be fixed

May I suggest you try swinging a solid iron war hammer? Is it really so bad that differing propertys of metals make some more effective for specific tasks then others?

[Capntastic]

Is the silliness of the new weapon system a bug? I kinnda wish adamentium had more punch then a nerf dart. I don't care when its fixed its just I wanna make sure that is gonna be fixed

Adamantine is ridiculously light.   Of course it would make a terrible hammer.

But yeah, some of the new materials are ridiculously wonky.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Yeh. I'd imagine the inobtanium from my Minerals mod would pack QUITE a punch as a hammer. To wit, it had about ten times the weight of steel.

Right now, corpses seem to be the bestest weapons. My adventurer slew four giants with first a cougar corpse, then a goblin corpse because it was thematically appropriate (and it was the corpse of the previous adventurer to die to these giants).

[gilrad]

Thing is, a lot of these issues (uncookable food, unkillable skeletons/blizzardmen/colossi) can simply be fixed in the RAWs. Just take a look at the RAW typos and missing tags thread; much of the RAW-based bugs have already been addressed, and some of the more complex ones such as colossi are certainly addressable.

(for example, to fix unkillable skeletons, simply create a new tissue layer called something like 'structural integrity' underneath the surface tissue layer. Give it tags associated with vital organs, so that when it gets damaged, bad stuff happens to the creature)

[Cruxador]

Ugh Toady's not releasing the next version* fast enough!  Ugh what do you mean he didn't fix all the bugs*?  Let me post an insulting thread about 'the actual odds of these bugs* getting fixed' and compare it to an earlier, stable build* that had had time to settle, less than a week before the new version comes out!  Ugh!

*Of an incredibly ambitious project that is in alpha.

What exactly is this thread here for other than to complain about things Toady himself has already addressed?

Man why you always so hostile?

[Footkerchief]

I apologize but there's no way to interpret the thread title as anything other than Maulrus implying that Toady is intending to go out of his way not to fix bugs, which is absurd.

I don't see how the title implies he would "go out of his way not to fix bugs," it just implies that he may leave some unfixed.  And that's pretty much guaranteed to be true to some degree.

I'm concerned myself that Toady will move on to new features before fixing, say, the glaring bugs and oversights in the combat system.  I'm not sure he's really gotten a feel for how broken it is, although hopefully the reports piling up in the tracker will convince him.

Frankly, I'd be quite surprised if Toady hasn't fixed all the (current) major bugs by the end of the month.  I'll also be quite surprised if we don't have a few new ones to keep things interesting.

That seems awfully optimistic.  My guess is more like 3 months.  The military alone, between the horrific interface and the numerous equipment/scheduling/orders bugs, probably needs another full month of work.  Another month for combat.  A third month for misc. crashes, the pathing bug, temperature bugs, rotting vermin, position appointment issues, and all the other miscellaneous-but-extremely-annoying stuff.

Not to imply that three months spent on bug fixes would be a bad thing.  Once it's more playable, this version will keep me entertained for a long time.

[Deon]

Ugh Toady's not releasing the next version* fast enough!  Ugh what do you mean he didn't fix all the bugs*?  Let me post an insulting thread about 'the actual odds of these bugs* getting fixed' and compare it to an earlier, stable build* that had had time to settle, less than a week before the new version comes out!  Ugh!

*Of an incredibly ambitious project that is in alpha.

What exactly is this thread here for other than to complain about things Toady himself has already addressed?

Man why you always so hostile?

Because he's Capntastic . I was not happy about "serious topic" too, it was a bit lame, as though as other topics we make are not serious, but I didn't comment on this because I am in a good mood right now.

[G-Flex]

I apologize but there's no way to interpret the thread title as anything other than Maulrus implying that Toady is intending to go out of his way not to fix bugs, which is absurd.

There's a more legitimate interpretation than that, you know.

Personally, while testing out the new combat/wounds stuff (and whatever else I can manage) and trying to figure them out, I keep hoping that Toady addresses these issues without leaving them hanging before he moves on to other stuff. Part of me is a little afraid that he will leave stuff hanging even as he moves on to new content - not necessarily any of the major bugs or anything like that, but there's a lot of stuff that needs a lot of polish, some fixing, or some reworking, and I'd hate to see any of that get left behind while Toady starts on the next phases of content.

I wasn't around for the 2D->3D switch, so I have no idea how he actually handles releases this huge, or with as many initial problems. One reason I'm apprehensive is because I'm not sure there were any issues with this serious a reworking of the systems (didn't Toady himself say this release was more profound a change than the first 3D one?), so I don't have a precedent to go by.


Personally, I don't care so much how quickly things get fixed up, because I don't want to rush the poor guy. As long as there aren't serious bits left hanging, I'm fine, especially considering how weird some of those bits are and how seriously they affect gameplay.

Keep in mind I'm talking less about outright bugs here and more about the kind of weird quirks and problems that are causing severe issues in the stuff I've been testing and posting to that thread I made about it.


So yeah, it's definitely legitimate to wonder if Toady's going to leave bugs on the table as he moves on, considering that it's happened before. It just hasn't happened with anything as serious as the changes in the current release. Yeah, expecting it to be done soon is kind of rude, but he didn't even sound like he was expecting it, just asking if anybody knew any sort of ballpark estimate.

Seriously, the OP is pretty tame and courteous and asks a legitimate question. No need to jump on anyone's back.

[dreiche2]

Nah, I seem to remember that the last big release had a lot of serious bugs as well, which were indeed fixed.

[Varisma]

There are like hundreds of threads asking about this. Of course these bugs will eventually get fixed it's not a finished game yet. It's not even half finished.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

There are like hundreds of threads asking about this. Of course these bugs will eventually get fixed it's not a finished game yet. It's not even half finished.

Usually alpha is well past the halfway mark of game development, but then again alpha is also usually past the point where new features are being added. Since we still have stuff like the Caravan Arc, Army Arc, Magic Arc, etc. to go, you may be right. Then again, the sheer amount of stuff in 40d, let alone 2010, is insane compared to most games out there that cost $50 off the shelf.

[Shades]

Usually alpha is well past the halfway mark of game development, but then again alpha is also usually past the point where new features are being added. Since we still have stuff like the Caravan Arc, Army Arc, Magic Arc, etc. to go, you may be right. Then again, the sheer amount of stuff in 40d, let alone 2010, is insane compared to most games out there that cost $50 off the shelf.

Although it differs from company to company, Alpha is normally where non-developer and/or whitebox testing starts to make sure features are working as expected (obviously pre-alpha would still have unittesting and developer tests). Features are generally locked at the end of the alpha phase (beta being for testing only).