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[Baughn]

I'm not depending on a particular shader model, I'm depending on particular extensions, because they speed things up.

At the moment, those are EXT_texture_buffer_object and EXT_texture_array.

You can use GLView to check whether your computer supports those or not.

Later, however, I will attempt to make things also work without them. Just not before I've got something that works at all. It may not even be possible to make shader-mode work fast without texture-buffer-object (couldn't make it do so before), but given that it's now got more features than just raw speed, I will certainly try to make it work.

[Baughn]

Maybe in perfect world it is ok to burn 400 watts of energy for 10+ hours gaming, i cannot do that.

Your GPU has a power-savings mode, probably several. Running DF's shader-mode on it is not going to make it power up very far, unless you're using a really badly written custom shader. On my laptop, it skips from the lowest power-saving mode to the second lowest, and that's just because, being a laptop GPU, the lowest-power mode has the shaders entirely offline.

[Deon]

The words that "ironhand, mayday and the like" save the situation are a bit too loud. DF has very accessible graphical resources so anyone can do it. Also more than 50% of people play the game in pure ASCII, there were a few polls about that. So graphical tilesets work for less than 50% of players, I've encountered it when I tried to make graphics-only mods.

That's said not to say anything bad about our great tileset makers, I just mean that you overestimate the meaning of graphics in such deep game as DF. I could play it if it had 16 ASCII tiles but more depth . I would really like most of the important stuff to be done first, the graphics are not important for an alpha.

Games like ADOM work well in pure ASCII and have huge playerbase .

[Rose]

yeah, 8000 series or above is needed for that.

good thing I don't actually use tilesets anyways, since it's so much more fun to develop stonesense.

[Vince]

Woah, I'm like 20 minutes away and hell breaks loose.

Dude i do not like you;
i saw your moronic comment about buying monitor i other topic and i exactly know your kind;
do not tell me about buying anything, i am in computers for 24 years.

Read again, I did not tell you to buy anything. I just commented on your claim that running shaders would need a 800$ gfx card.
And I do not think that you know anything "about my kind". Rest assured, I'm not that kind of guy that buys only the newest alienware pc.

My main problem is, that with 0.12 i AM ABLE to use DF for fort >5 yrs old on my 2 yr old laptop without GFX CARD

And you WILL BE able to in the future.

i hear i may buy gfx card for <100 whatever from you, and you seem to miss i am talking about LAPTOP.

I said that you are unable to upgrade the gfx card on most laptops.

I just got feeling, that we may need ubermachine just for displaying something i saw 20 yrs ago(2d tiles).

DF already pushes the CPU to its limit, where are we supposed to get the number-crunching done, if not on the GPU? And you can't utilize the GPU without shaders.

The main problem is that we have a combinatoric issue at hand if we want the "surrounding-aware" tiles. The games of the SNES era did not have the problems we're having now, they had hand-made maps.

[McBeer]

[just remove it, good luck, nvmd, sorry, and all]

[Rose]

allright, you know, i see slate stonesense 5 TIMES SLOWER than earlier one(while real advantages/differences for end-user are none);
if DF tends to be like that, i just wanted to be cleared about it, nothing more .

Sorry bout that.

I'm pretty much to blame for this

[Deon]

What do you mean by 16x2? You can use PNG with as many colors as you ever need.

[McBeer]

allright, you know, i see slate stonesense 5 TIMES SLOWER than earlier one(while real advantages/differences for end-user are none);
if DF tends to be like that, i just wanted to be cleared about it, nothing more .

Sorry bout that.

I'm pretty much to blame for this

erm, uh, thanks for progress, but idd, actual stonesense stopped working like just 2d iso representation, it is lagging so much now, as it was  ogl egoboo or sth;/
...i wish You luck in that awesome project, even if i do not use it now(400 watts draining desktop and power-saver laptop for choose, etc.).

What do you mean by 16x2? You can use PNG with as many colors as you ever need.

Deon, Deon... where can i get info about whole palette ways then;
you know i have 14 colors of ARROWS to make with unique colors and ONE tile?

[Vince]

What do you mean by 16x2? You can use PNG with as many colors as you ever need.

Aren't the fore-and background colors tinting/overwriting everything?

[McBeer]

What do you mean by 16x2? You can use PNG with as many colors as you ever need.

Aren't the fore-and background colors tinting/overwriting everything?

that's wrong question for conscious ones...man. it IS that's the additional prob, lol!~.

ok, now lemme stfme, i really do not want to bew banned just for way i am trying to get information in crowd of very happy people(i can see clearly incoming woes, just that).

Ironhand, sorry for unexpected way of adding to your big topic...gl.

[Vince]

that's wrong question for conscious ones...man. it IS that's the additional prob, lol!~.

ok, now lemme stfme, i really do not want to bew banned just for way i am trying to get information in crowd of very happy people(i can see clearly incoming woes, just that).

Ironhand, sorry for unexpected way of adding to your big topic...gl.

Your concerns are valid.
Just rest assured, that you will be able to play DF like you can do now. Just some eye-candy is not available.
And until we have full graphics support (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/eternal_voting.php) we have to work around it (e.g. with shaders).

[McBeer]

that's wrong question for conscious ones...man. it IS that's the additional prob, lol!~.

ok, now lemme stfme, i really do not want to bew banned just for way i am trying to get information in crowd of very happy people(i can see clearly incoming woes, just that).

Ironhand, sorry for unexpected way of adding to your big topic...gl.

Your concerns are valid.
Just rest assured, that you will be able to play DF like you can do now. Just some eye-candy is not available.
And until we have full graphics support (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/eternal_voting.php) we have to work around it (e.g. with shaders).

McBeer cancels cancelling open beer - opening beer then.

Just rest assured, that you will be able to play DF like you can do now

That's what i wanted to hear, really...

Sorry for being rude, and useless. i would add to the community, but i just have nothing for you, guys...

[Vince]

Sorry for being rude, and useless. i would add to the community, but i just have nothing for you, guys...

You made a nice gardening mod!

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'm not depending on a particular shader model, I'm depending on particular extensions, because they speed things up.

At the moment, those are EXT_texture_buffer_object and EXT_texture_array.

You can use GLView to check whether your computer supports those or not.

Later, however, I will attempt to make things also work without them. Just not before I've got something that works at all. It may not even be possible to make shader-mode work fast without texture-buffer-object (couldn't make it do so before), but given that it's now got more features than just raw speed, I will certainly try to make it work.

Wait, isn't what you're doing basically a graphics engine addon anyway? If so, DF won't receive a performance hit even if you make everything run in software. Well, most of the times. As long as the machine running it is dualcore, which even the lowliest laptops in shops around here are, netbooks excluded. What do you think? Would it be possible to swap out parts of your engine that are not supported, and replace them with software emulation on the fly?