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[RedWarrior0]

The only reason the military seems to be run so inefficiently is probably because of the size and scale of their operation.

As well as the fact that politicians are involved. But yeah, I think it takes guts to do.

[Leafsnail]

I wouldn't say I'm completely "anti-war", but I'm against involvement in Afghanistan or Iraq... I mean, I've never been given a satisfactory explanation as to why we're still there or how we're helping.

[Zangi]

I wouldn't say I'm completely "anti-war", but I'm against involvement in Afghanistan or Iraq... I mean, I've never been given a satisfactory explanation as to why we're still there or how we're helping.

We are killing terrorists? 

But yea, there is more to that, having to do with long term national security and what-not.  We pull out just like that and its probably assumed that both Iraq and Afghanistan would become failed states.  And if they do become stable, its probably also assumed to be hostile anti-US breeding grounds.

Being a pessimistic person, I expect any adviser on Iraq/Afghan stuff to basically say 'worse stuff will happen if we don't finish our job here'...
The US can't really win one way or the other if it intends to try to keep its clout over world affairs.

[Leafsnail]

But military prescence in those countries is what's giving the extremist groups their support.  After all, how many people in this thread said they'd join the army in order to protect their homeland if it was invaded?

[cowofdoom78963]

If I was a soldier and I would probably never be, I would be the best soldier and follow all the orders and kill everything I was told to kill without a second thought as to why and maybe die.

[Cthulhu]

But military prescence in those countries is what's giving the extremist groups their support.  After all, how many people in this thread said they'd join the army in order to protect their homeland if it was invaded?

We never condemned their spirit, but we still have to shoot them.

[Leafsnail]

But killing people like this isn't gonna get us anywhere, just as it hasn't got us anywhere for the past 9 years.  People who feel they are defending their country are extremely difficult to fight, especially when using tactics that result in large amounts of civilian casualties.

[Jackrabbit]

I think that's pretty clear to everyone right now. And yet fighting continues. What does that tell you? That it's a bugger, but there it is.

I'm personally glad that Australia is focusing on reconstruction rather than just killing the enemy, though obviously that's something they do too.

[cowofdoom78963]

I'm personally glad that Australia is focusing on reconstruction rather than just killing the enemy, though obviously that's something they do too.

That's what they all say. They want to kill the enemy. Reconstruction is just PR.

[Jackrabbit]

Are you implying they're not focusing on reconstruction?

I really do hope you've something to back up that claim other than your personal opinion.

[Leafsnail]

Reconstruction's one thing, but it's pretty difficult to reconstruct someone's blown up family members...

[cowofdoom78963]

Who sends soldiers to a country to reconstruct it? If they wanted to reconstruct it they would have sent construction supplies.

[Jackrabbit]

They, uh, they did. And still do.

And in case you missed it, there's a war going on. It's not like they could send construction workers in on their lonesome and expect anything other than massive desertion and casualty rates.

Reconstruction's one thing, but it's pretty difficult to reconstruct someone's blown up family members...

It is. I don't condone the war, I want to make that clear. And I don't think we should have gotten involved in the first place, hell, almost no one does. But as long as they're there, it's good that they're actively working to stand the country upright.

[cowofdoom78963]

They, uh, they did. And still do.

And in case you missed it, there's a war going on. It's not like they could send construction workers in on their lonesome and expect anything other than massive desertion and casualty rates.

What about all those people the soldiers kill while "reconstructing" the country?

[Jackrabbit]

They're called the enemy. And when it's civilians soldiers kill, it's known as collateral damage. Here's how I feel about that:

I despise it. I hate it utterly that civilians are dying at the hands of allied soldiers. I hope to God that if it was intentional, those that do it are brought to justice, but I know in most cases they won't be. And if it was accidental, it doesn't make it any better. But here's the thing about that. There's a war on in that country, with an active and very dangerous insurgency. Civilian casualties are not good, to put it very, very mildly, but they are unavoidable, you have to realize that. Minimization of civilian casualties is the best option we're going to get.

As for the killing of insurgents, they're the enemy. If they're actively trying to kill our soldiers and our soldiers kill them, well, it's war. That's what happens. Again, unavoidable.

And whilst all this is going on, Australian forces (not just Australian forces, obviously) are working to rebuild the country.

So yeah, people are going to die. It'll happen, and it's impossible to stop, so the best you can hope for is that the allied forces try their hardest to make the country better, even in the middle of a war.