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[Mortesphere]

Does anyone have the will to make one of these?

[Core Xii]

Here's a chart for you: Rose Gold, which is 3 parts gold and 1 part copper - and did I mention it's pink, is better than iron for armor and weapons? Didn't test against steel yet.

[Squirrelloid]

I have an excel sheet with all the stress-related variables in it for all the standard weapon metals, it would be easy to share.  The problem is that I don't know what the game is doing with any of this information, at all.  I can make some guesses based on the real world, but that's all those are is guesses.

Based solely on density I'm guessing Silver is pretty good for hammers, but it also has a high impact elasticity, which I believe should be bad for a bludgeoning weapon.  I don't know if the game actually looks at that, though.

[LordSlowpoke]

I have an excel sheet with all the stress-related variables in it for all the standard weapon metals, it would be easy to share.  The problem is that I don't know what the game is doing with any of this information, at all.  I can make some guesses based on the real world, but that's all those are is guesses.

Based solely on density I'm guessing Silver is pretty good for hammers, but it also has a high impact elasticity, which I believe should be bad for a bludgeoning weapon.  I don't know if the game actually looks at that, though.

Silver is dense. Thus heavy. But if you smack something with it, the kinetic energy goes...to explain it simply, the smacking end of the hammer goes more like "splat" and your enemy less like "loliexplodenowamirite?"

[Squirrelloid]

I have an excel sheet with all the stress-related variables in it for all the standard weapon metals, it would be easy to share.  The problem is that I don't know what the game is doing with any of this information, at all.  I can make some guesses based on the real world, but that's all those are is guesses.

Based solely on density I'm guessing Silver is pretty good for hammers, but it also has a high impact elasticity, which I believe should be bad for a bludgeoning weapon.  I don't know if the game actually looks at that, though.

Silver is dense. Thus heavy. But if you smack something with it, the kinetic energy goes...to explain it simply, the smacking end of the hammer goes more like "splat" and your enemy less like "loliexplodenowamirite?"

You'd think that.  But people have been reporting great success with _gold_ weapons in the arena, and i wouldve thought gold would be even more elastic than silver, and thus also a poor weapon material.

It would help to know how density trades off with elasticity to generate damage in the game, assuming it does.

Edit: I take that back, gold is apparently less elastic in the game.  Um, what?

[EliDupree]

Based solely on density I'm guessing Silver is pretty good for hammers, but it also has a high impact elasticity, which I believe should be bad for a bludgeoning weapon.

Strictly speaking, a collision of higher elasticity is more dangerous because if the weapon bounces off, it's imparted more of its momentum to the target. Realistically, the victim (human, dwarf...) is probably so inelastic that the weapon won't bounce at all, so the metal's elasticity shouldn't make a difference. Hardness might be important for the striking surface(s) (especially against hard armor), but other than that, it's just mass.

[Squirrelloid]

Based solely on density I'm guessing Silver is pretty good for hammers, but it also has a high impact elasticity, which I believe should be bad for a bludgeoning weapon.

Strictly speaking, a collision of higher elasticity is more dangerous because if the weapon bounces off, it's imparted more of its momentum to the target. Realistically, the victim (human, dwarf...) is probably so inelastic that the weapon won't bounce at all, so the metal's elasticity shouldn't make a difference. Hardness might be important for the striking surface(s) (especially against hard armor), but other than that, it's just mass.

You're mistaking elasticity for elastic modulus.  Not the same thing.

A highly elastic material will have a more inelastic collision, because deformation causes contact to continue for longer. 

More elastic material = less elastic collision!  (Blame engineers and physicists for coming up with similarly named terminology for different things).

edit: elastic modulus is more or less = 1/elasticity, strangely enough

EM = Stress/Strain.  Strain = E*Stress => EM = 1/E

[Squirrelloid]

Game Data for Impact Elasticity:
Gold: 600
Iron: 635
Silver: 1080

Note that silver and gold have approximately the same Young's Modulus of Elasticity in the real world (inverse tensile elasticity).  I can't find real world data for impact elasticity specifically though, but gold has to be wrong.  No way it is stiffer than Iron.

[Paul]

Hopefully Toady comes in with some explanation of how metals work soon

I'm especially curious about the "Max Edge" value. The [Deep_Special] metal has 100,000 max edge, while every single other has exactly 10,000 max edge, and obsidian has 20,000 max edge. At first glance max edge would assumingly make better blades, but why do all the metals have the same max? I guess it might just be in progress. That might be why some inferior metals can work better than steel since the other attributes are different but the max edge is the same even though steel should probably have a higher max edge.

I have a feeling some of the current attributes are placeholders (or just mistakes) since some of them seem a bit strange (as mentioned by Squirreloid here )

[monk12]

Game Data for Impact Elasticity:
Gold: 600
Iron: 635
Silver: 1080

Note that silver and gold have approximately the same Young's Modulus of Elasticity in the real world (inverse tensile elasticity).  I can't find real world data for impact elasticity specifically though, but gold has to be wrong.  No way it is stiffer than Iron.

I've recently been researching metals for unrelated D&D purposes. Apparently, although steel is all kinds of awesome, pure wrought iron is ridiculously soft. The only reason Iron outstripped Bronze IRL is because the ancients ran out of tin, and iron was convenient and widely available. There are accounts from Roman soldiers who fought the Gauls, who were using iron weapons, and supposedly during breaks in the battle the Gauls would have to bend their swords back in shape.

Its still probably harder than gold, but the comparison isn't far-fetched assuming Dwarves are the only ones with Steelmaking technology. Although interestingly, in this scenario the world we look at isn't medieval fantasy, but Bronze Age fantasy.

[Paul]

I've recently been researching metals for unrelated D&D purposes. Apparently, although steel is all kinds of awesome, pure wrought iron is ridiculously soft. The only reason Iron outstripped Bronze IRL is because the ancients ran out of tin, and iron was convenient and widely available. There are accounts from Roman soldiers who fought the Gauls, who were using iron weapons, and supposedly during breaks in the battle the Gauls would have to bend their swords back in shape.

Its still probably harder than gold, but the comparison isn't far-fetched assuming Dwarves are the only ones with Steelmaking technology. Although interestingly, in this scenario the world we look at isn't medieval fantasy, but Bronze Age fantasy.

Probably harder than gold? Heheh... Gold is super soft. Gold has the hardness of a fingernail. You can actually make an indent in pure gold just by pressing your fingernail into it hard enough. This is why they alloy it with copper and silver and such when making jewelry - its just so darn soft and not practical when pure.

Iron, on the other hand, is quite a bit harder. Sure, it will bend when made into a sword and beat against something (better to bend than break), but so will bronze. Quality bronze vs quality iron using iron-age processes would probably be pretty similar, since the forging process added some level of carbon to the iron anyway (heating in coals, hammering flecks of said coals into metal, etc). A gold long sword would probably bend under its own weight.

Also, I'm no metallurgy expert, but isn't "pure" wrought iron kind of nonsensical? I thought wrought iron was impure iron by definition (slag and other impurities from the smelting process). I don't think that's the kind of iron they used to make things like swords, since the impurities would make it too weak.

[Qloos]

Merry Christmas.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[monk12]

I've recently been researching metals for unrelated D&D purposes. Apparently, although steel is all kinds of awesome, pure wrought iron is ridiculously soft. The only reason Iron outstripped Bronze IRL is because the ancients ran out of tin, and iron was convenient and widely available. There are accounts from Roman soldiers who fought the Gauls, who were using iron weapons, and supposedly during breaks in the battle the Gauls would have to bend their swords back in shape.

Its still probably harder than gold, but the comparison isn't far-fetched assuming Dwarves are the only ones with Steelmaking technology. Although interestingly, in this scenario the world we look at isn't medieval fantasy, but Bronze Age fantasy.

Probably harder than gold? Heheh... Gold is super soft. Gold has the hardness of a fingernail. You can actually make an indent in pure gold just by pressing your fingernail into it hard enough. This is why they alloy it with copper and silver and such when making jewelry - its just so darn soft and not practical when pure.

Iron, on the other hand, is quite a bit harder. Sure, it will bend when made into a sword and beat against something (better to bend than break), but so will bronze. Quality bronze vs quality iron using iron-age processes would probably be pretty similar, since the forging process added some level of carbon to the iron anyway (heating in coals, hammering flecks of said coals into metal, etc). A gold long sword would probably bend under its own weight.

Also, I'm no metallurgy expert, but isn't "pure" wrought iron kind of nonsensical? I thought wrought iron was impure iron by definition (slag and other impurities from the smelting process). I don't think that's the kind of iron they used to make things like swords, since the impurities would make it too weak.

Hoo, boy. Should have known I couldn't get away with that.

According to The Other Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrought_iron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel#History_of_steelmaking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_iron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ferrous_metallurgy#Iron_smelting_and_the_Iron_Age

Wrought iron is "pure" in that it has a very low carbon content compared to steel. Its what you get when you go smelting your iron ores and whatnot. Pig iron happens when you heat up your iron too much while forging it in the presence of a flux material, allowing a high carbon content into the iron. This makes it rather brittle, and not good for much. What some clever person (or in our case, dwarf) learned at some point is that if you take pig iron and forge it again, you'll get a metal harder than iron or bronze that will hold its edge much longer: steel.

But anyway, I'd like to go ahead and say that I've learned enough about metallurgy to know just how much I do not know about metallurgy. My comments were only meant to show that the process is more complicated than iron>bronze>gold, and that the Toady One has likely done his homework on the subject.