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[Tiruin]

I've tried out some of the new monsters in the arena, could I suggest a way to kill gelatinous cubes? They certainly will never, ever, die...

If possible, could it be modded that the cube has parts that should be broken and then lopped off? (Like when you splat it around with a hammer, since swords and axes' sharpness won't work) Or have a tiny core of some kind holding up the whole structure and acting as the control center of it?

Or when it comes in contact with magma, it melts?

I think of an amoeba when fighting it :/

[Trapezohedron]

If it wouldn't be too rude, I'd like to borrow some parts of your ice mephit raw and your coldbreath_template for a mod I'm making, Deon. You will get a place in the credits section, of course.

[TomiTapio]

I've tried out some of the new monsters in the arena, could I suggest a way to kill gelatinous cubes? They certainly will never, ever, die...

I nerfed it from 5000-thick skin to 20-thick skin in today's release. I shall try it in the arena now.
5 gelcube vs 10 giant badger: 6 badgers zero GC die, 4 badgers get injured and flee.
5 gelcube vs 5 giant gargoyle... gelcubes live.
5 gelcube vs 3 hydra, hydras flesh rots and they flee. *sigh*
(tweak cube)
WOW, giant can throw GCube like 30 squares with wrestling!
(change to 2partbody, now central knot can be lopped off)
5 GC vs 15 no skill no gear goblins, GCs die, 9 gob survive with horrible "rotten" damage.
5 GC vs 10 gargoyles: gargoyles win and took no damage. (follow-up: frost dragon vs 10 garg, FD wins but took heavy damage.)
(increase body from 60kg to 300kg so it won't be puny)
5 GC vs 10 stone dwarf: 1 GC dead, 6 dorf dead, 4 rotting dorfs flee
5 GC vs 10 stone dwarf with iron axes: 5 GC dead, 8 dorf dead, 2 dorf victorious! This seems about right when dorfs have no armor no skill.

Okay here's the current raws with nasty but killable Cubes:
Ironhand: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/Genesis_3.25dTT_Ironhand_Bonfires__minerals_woods_June1.zip
ASCII tiles: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/Genesis_3.25dTT_ASCII_Bonfires__minerals_woods_June1.zip

[jockmo42]

Okay here's the current raws with nasty but killable Cubes:
Ironhand: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/Genesis_3.25dTT_Ironhand_Bonfires__minerals_woods_June1.zip
ASCII tiles: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/Genesis_3.25dTT_ASCII_Bonfires__minerals_woods_June1.zip

Thanks a ton, man!

Hmm. So my demon adventurer just found a bonfire pestle. I picked it up and carried it outside, then I started melting so I threw it into the forest. What is happening.

[NobodyPro]

Adventurer mode gives materials based on a sort of tier system calculated in worldgen (guess based on experience) so in mods you can recieve some pretty bizarre objects such as a bonfire pestle (bonfire mod, supposed to be a piece of wood that begins to burn).

[Morwaul]

Hello Tomi

I think we have enough regular creatures but if you want to make more knock yourself out.  What I would like to see if more fantasy and useful type creatures.  Fae and Dire animals sound awesome.  I do not thing Dire animals should not be tamable.  A Legendary Animal trainer should be able to tame nearly anything: Dire Critter, Dragon, Women, and all the other Evil beasties.  Cause really, are they Evil, or do they just think you or your pocket book look yummy?  I would actually like to see the Fae / Dire thing expanded. 

Fae = faster, more agile, dexterous, etc.  Better at dodging
Dire = slower, stronger, tougher, etc.  Thicker hide
Mutant = Could apply to any animal including Fae and Dire, even stronger, faster, tougher, damaging, etc.  Could even give weird effects such as 2 heads, iron skin, pink fur with white horns

If you are getting hung up on Dire = Evil then use a different name.  Seelie and Unseelie or Fae and Trogg or whatever but personally I like Dire.

Other ideas would be: (not sure if these are doable)
  1 Flying pets?  Eagle, Fae Eagle, Dire Eagle
  2 Working pets?  Got a thing called a Nith Mason.  Thought wow, it would be cool if it really was a mason.  Not sure is this is doable but it would be very coo if there were critters that when trained do tasks.  Carry things, eat body parts, smooth stone, train your dwarves in wrestling, impregnate your spouse-less dwarves....or maybe not.
  3 Growable animal food?  I am really getting tired of my entire map being turned into a wasteland by a couple animals. 
  4 Growable Wood?  Plant a bunch of wood bearing plants on a farm plot and have your woodcutter turn them into logs.

Also, I am having trouble with traps.  I built a cool trap system that should have been the death of a many enemy but instead of walking into it the enemies just stand in the corners of the map until they get board and leave.  I don't even have to close the gates.  It makes me sad....

The animal eating all the grass thing is also very irritating.  If we cannot make animal food then can we make it so that walking on the grass and eating it doesn't kill it or if it does kills it very slowly?  Or make it grow back very quickly. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just some ideas.  Take them or leave them.  I love what you do.

 

[jockmo42]

Adventurer mode gives materials based on a sort of tier system calculated in worldgen (guess based on experience) so in mods you can recieve some pretty bizarre objects such as a bonfire pestle (bonfire mod, supposed to be a piece of wood that begins to burn).

I knew this much, I just always assumed there was a way to exclude some materials.

[TomiTapio]

A Legendary Animal trainer
Fae = faster, more agile, dexterous, etc.  Better at dodging
Dire = slower, stronger, tougher, etc.  Thicker hide
Mutant = Could apply to any animal including Fae and Dire, even stronger, faster, tougher, damaging, etc.  Could even give weird effects such as 2 heads, iron skin, pink fur with white horns

Thanks for the feedback!
pet_exotic tamed only by dungeonmaster is still broken :/
I like the fae speedy things. You could call my Spirit Ravens faeravens instead, but they're half in half out of the material world.
I tried to make a non-flesh ghost apparition, but it crashed the worldgen hard when I set it to large_predator. I'd like more ghosts, very hard to kill (good weapon practice) but deal very little damage (area-stun howl?)
Got ToughMaterials which is given to most cave beasts. Yeah can easily command more skin and muscle thickness. Usually there are giant versions instead of dire versions, Toady loves giantifying.
Mutant Faedogs (rare caste) have firebreath :´) Gargoyles have the nice marble-rock skin. Mutant wolf could have poison bite or thicker materials.
One heavy mutant feature: doesn't die of blood loss.

  1 Flying pets?  Eagle, Fae Eagle, Dire Eagle
  2 Working pets?  Got a thing called a Nith Mason.  Thought wow, it would be cool if it really was a mason.  Not sure is this is doable but it would be very cool if there were critters that when trained do tasks.  Carry things, eat body parts, smooth stone, train your dwarves in wrestling, impregnate your spouse-less dwarves....or maybe not.
  3 Growable animal food?  I am really getting tired of my entire map being turned into a wasteland by a couple animals. 
  4 Growable Wood?  Plant a bunch of wood bearing plants on a farm plot and have your woodcutter turn them into logs.
Also, I am having trouble with traps.  I built a cool trap system that should have been the death of a many enemy but instead of walking into it the enemies just stand in the corners of the map until they get board and leave.  I don't even have to close the gates.  It makes me sad....

1. bats and owls could become popular pets, but you really don't see any difference from the flying. Maybe faster speed than dog. Did you mean flying fortress-guard-animals like gargoyles? I made captureable-tameable-nonmegabeast dragons once... then enemy siege came riding 30 gray dragons APOCALYPSE
2. If they can work, they're a caste of your own civ. Otherwise they're animals or captured enemies.
3. feeding not doable. Dig a soil-layer cave, grass grows there and animals are safe from hostiles. Elephants eat the fastest.
4. Well that might be fun, grow lots of Plant X, and alchemy shop glues the bush's sticks into wooden planks. (wickerwork?) (25 bush to 1 or 2 wood)
Yeah it's a "siege", they're being clever and not rushing forward like dumb werewolves. Siege cuts you off from the outside and harass you. You can try sending one no-skills beardlessdorf out as one-man squad to taunt them. Chain up puppies, maybe they'll attack them.

[Morwaul]

I like the fae speedy things. You could call my Spirit Ravens faeravens instead, but they're half in half out of the material world.
I tried to make a non-flesh ghost apparition, but it crashed the worldgen hard when I set it to large_predator. I'd like more ghosts, very hard to kill (good weapon practice) but deal very little damage (area-stun howl?)
Got ToughMaterials which is given to most cave beasts. Yeah can easily command more skin and muscle thickness. Usually there are giant versions instead of dire versions, Toady loves giantifying.
Mutant Faedogs (rare caste) have firebreath :´) Gargoyles have the nice marble-rock skin. Mutant wolf could have poison bite or thicker materials.
One heavy mutant feature: doesn't die of blood loss.

1. bats and owls could become popular pets, but you really don't see any difference from the flying. Maybe faster speed than dog. Did you mean flying fortress-guard-animals like gargoyles? I made captureable-tameable-nonmegabeast dragons once... then enemy siege came riding 30 gray dragons APOCALYPSE

4. Well that might be fun, grow lots of Plant X, and alchemy shop glues the bush's sticks into wooden planks. (wickerwork?) (25 bush to 1 or 2 wood)
Yeah it's a "siege", they're being clever and not rushing forward like dumb werewolves. Siege cuts you off from the outside and harass you. You can try sending one no-skills beardlessdorf out as one-man squad to taunt them. Chain up puppies, maybe they'll attack them.

The ghost thing sounds very neat.  Actually having ghosts or maybe even a wraith as a semi mega beast could be Fun. 

I think you have the idea of what I was trying to get across.  The Fae / Dire tag can be anything or nothing.  The idea was to have a happy fast, agile, better than normal version of animals that have a fairyish style and a meaner stronger, tougher, better than normal version of animals that have a hellish or underworldish kinda feel to them.  They could be balanced so that they are different but neither one more powerful than the other (Fae wolf bites you 5 times for 6 damage doing 30 damage total / Dire wolf bites you 2 time for 15 damage doing 30 damage total)  (You swing at the Fae wolf 3 times missing twice and getting a glancing blow once doing 2 damage total / You swing at the Dire wolf 3 times getting 2 glancing blows and hitting him right between the eyes once doing 2 damage total.)  They should all be tamable / trainable.

On second thought, maybe they should all be Fae but rather than calling the Fae call the Seelie Hound and Unseelie hound.  Meh, it doesn't roll off the tung like Fae and Dire do though.  That is what I am kinda getting at though.

2.  I was thinking more of something not ridable at all but able to fly and deadly.  Something that would be able provide a challenge for or even tear up a steel clad dwarf if encountered in the wild and enraged.  But if captured or purchased and tamed/trained could be a valuable defense against bat riders, giant eagles, dragons, etc.  For instance, putting a pen/pasture with 10 War Mutant Fae Hawks 2 or 3 Z levels over your entrance or field.  Kinda like having a squadron of Interceptor Jets ready to go.  They would have to be very expensive like the Faedogs and their ability to fly would make it quite difficult to trap them.

4.  I like your take on it.  I was thinking more like a hardwood mushroom or subterranean tree but the whole Alchemy Shop / Glue thing makes me think underground bamboo which as this century is proving can be turned into anything from furniture to flooring to sheets.

[Torgan]

The animal eating all the grass thing is also very irritating.  If we cannot make animal food then can we make it so that walking on the grass and eating it doesn't kill it or if it does kills it very slowly?  Or make it grow back very quickly. 

The newest version of Genesis is supposed to have stopped domestic animals trampling grass I think.  Just noticed as I'm redownloading it on my work comp to make a slow Friday go faster. >_>

I think Toady had an idea about feeding animals using rock nut cakes but I can't see anything on the wiki so maybe I imagined it.  Maybe it's just on his endless list of future items. 

I guess this isn't possible to mod but is it possible to get beavers that build dams, flooding fortresses?   Then we need fireproof magma beavers that do the same underground.  We do have lots of animals and birds, is it possible to do anything with the bees, good bees that let you harvest super honey that works as soap, evil bees that let you harvest poison from hives but both are more likely to kill/incapacitate a dwarf if they sting.  Or turn your dwarf into a werebee in the next release.

[TomiTapio]

I think one could implement a ghost as similar to gelatinous cube, but with massive dodging skill and normal footspeed. Ofcoz fast flying banshees should be there. Probably a more dangerous ghost for evil areas.
It would be super hard to balance the damage amounts between fae and dire. Most of the damage is done by latch & shake-tear. A generic arena test of 20 faetiger and 20 dire tiger would give indication which one's current size/speed/skills/biteforce/skinthickness/toughness combo is deadlier. I have the feeling that size matters much less than how many attacks your superior speed gives you.
Deadly flying pets, that would be a Winged Cobra. Or a poison-spurred hawk.

The newest version of Genesis is supposed to have stopped domestic animals trampling grass I think.  Just noticed as I'm redownloading it on my work comp to make a slow Friday go faster. >_>
possible to do anything with the bees, good bees that let you harvest super honey that works as soap

Yeah it was just removing the old grasstrample tags. Sure I could make more bee species, but they might give more crashes being a recent feature addition. Don't quite see a point in having more bee species, unless for magic alchemy stuff. I remember something about soap from reactions being impossible? (looks at raws) Hmm. The point is that it's supposed to be many steps to make soap. (ash-lye screwpress-jug) One could try itemcorpse:soap from a "foaming mink" (they would have a soap gland).

Nope, animals and invaders can't construct squat. Ice mephit however can convert 1/7 water to 7/7 ice walls! So... caste A leaks a 1/7 high fluid (probably not possible), caste B freezes fluid into walls.
Probably should add beavers to the mod as they're pretty distinctive (compared to one more deer species).

ps. in yesterday's fort I saw a wild elephant and its child!

[TomiTapio]

Just added beavers to my worlds. 13-43 kg. Also fixed bug in GelCube's attack. And tuned gelcube's syndromes.
[DESCRIPTION:A nocturnal river rodent with a huge flat tail and dark-brown oily fur. They eat leaves and green bark. It can grow to be as heavy as a common dog.]


beaver .. meet toothbrush. by krrrista, on Flickr

[GreatWyrmGold]

Awesome mod, especially the dwarf castes and illithids. Suggestion: Add blue, green, black, and white dragons as well as red ones.

[TomiTapio]

Awesome mod, especially the dwarf castes and illithids. Suggestion: Add blue, green, black, and white dragons as well as red ones.

Thanks! I'm sure Deon would thank you too if he wasn't real busy.
Got frost wyrm (blue, cold) and wyvern (green, acid) dragons already courtesy of Deon. What did the white one do again, was it frost and blue was lightning? I'd like some other new megabeasts than dragon with new syndrome breath. Maybe a metal-plated dragon? Adamantine serpent? Colossal Silver Spider?

[Patchouli]

LonelyZues Brought this up in DF General:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Revocane#grid/user/C3C568A635A1B019

It's a quite extensive playthrough of Genesis.