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[Daff]

Elves have more or less blue and orange morality so them bringing you animal blood is just as logical as them bringing logs and wooden items or getting upset about you trying to sell their wooden items back to them.

[Jeoshua]

must... not... click... know... it's... a.... trap

[Daff]

I just love how it's easy to spend a few hours reading articles after clicking on a few "see also" or "compare" links.

Brilliant site

[asfghn]

Secondly: There is a beautiful tileset that I believe is, unfortunately, quite dead. Now, I've been able to sort of clumsily 'update' it by messing with the graphics and adding in new creature tiles copied from Ironhand or Phoebus (depending on which I like better) and figuring out the positioning manually, but since I've discovered the raw tile selector Deon linked a while back, I've been wondering: how would I go about updating it fully to the current vanilla version? Specifically, I'd like a copy of Genesis juryrigged to have Goldplated as the tileset, insofar as Goldplated exists (so I'd have to 'borrow' tiles from another set for things it doesn't cover). Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it?

You ask me and make puppy eyes (any webcam works) and I do it .
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4201

There may be some inconsistencies, but I tried to make everything as it should be (added bogeymen/night creature graphics, replaced "dead trees" with appropriate bridge ends etc.).

sdlfkjkahsdgkajdsfgh PUPPY EYES PIC FORTHCOMING ♥♥♥

tangentially related: noooooooooooooooo

[Daff]

Deon you mentioned earlier in the thread (can't find the post right now) that you'll add placeholder reactions and workshops in the next versions.

Will these workshops be available for construction even without the actual reactions ready? And if they are could you include a list of workshops that are actually doing something in the release notes / manual / forum post?


Also, is everyone a troper here? 

[SirAaronIII]

Deon you mentioned earlier in the thread (can't find the post right now) that you'll add placeholder reactions and workshops in the next versions.

Will these workshops be available for construction even without the actual reactions ready? And if they are could you include a list of workshops that are actually doing something in the release notes / manual / forum post?


Also, is everyone a troper here? 

Yes.

[TomiTapio]

Thanks for the blood cooking tag, I had forgotten it could be done that way. I thought more like 2 barrels of blood into one bag of dried blood dust (make dye and flour versions!)
"Make dye from blood" and "Make nourishing flour from blood". We have blood pancakes (veriletut) in Finland, and one region has "black" blood sausages.

that the old one was located on a nice warm ocean beach, had a huge moat with four working drawbridges and windmill-powered pumps to fill it with water, a three-story stone wall around all the land that wasn't ocean beach, several magma workshops and stores, finished goods and metal by the hundreds, huge amounts of engravings and an artifact cabinet (+an artifact backpack, a large underground

Here's a suggestion: backup it, abandon it, put new raws into the save, embark (maybe non-reclaim) on site and hope it works. Keeps location and walls and digging and workshops.
Or you can use old save's worldgen seeds (in logfile or in exported info) and get the exact same world, except history has gone differently thanks to combats going differently.

Getting to magma sea is easy if your caves are 4 levels high like mine, and not 20 levels high like the default settings.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(two cavern layers -> magma sea at -19 to -23 )
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:40]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:60]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:4]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:9]

   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:8]  natural caves of adventurer mode, seem to affect fort mode too?
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:16]

Also, is everyone a troper here? 

No. I am a Flickrite and a partial deviantArtist. Also a KGS (Kiseido Go Server) noob. But I gotta know about some tropes, especially gainaxing.

[rainekage]

Sorry Deon and Tomi, I was about to embark on a volcano and test the steel-making process...then I found an epic waterfall biome...etcetcetc

....Will update with the steel production in a minute.

EDIT:  Okay, found out the problem.  Caught one when it said I didn't have iron bars to build a blast furnace.

Well I did - Pure iron bars.  The problem is, Genesis (at least, the version last released on DFFD) won't accept pure iron for the creation of the blast furnace, or the creation of steel through the finishing forge or the crucible.  You have to create just normal "iron" at the finishing forge before it will let you do any of the other reactions.

So, shortly, it's adding an extra step.  Before doing anything, you have to turn pure iron into iron.

Found a bug: magma blast furnace takes iron ore, should take pure iron ore.
Doesnt this reaction break metalworking balance ? It looks like no other iron or steel reactions are needed if you have iron ore and flux.

This should be roughly what I was saying.  Pure iron's only reaction is to harden it to normal iron - if I'm reading the ironworks tutorial right (and that it's been right since the chart was made), steel reactions should require pure iron, not normal.  Right now everything has to be hardened from pure into normal iron, then into steel via blast furnace, crucible, or finishing forge.  It's adding an extra step, basically.

Guess I was rambling about waterfalls so much that nobody saw the actual edit about the bug - provided it's not supposed to be that way now (Maybe I missed a page where it was decided that was more balanced).

Edit: Wait, Bridget has his own trope?  Great, now I'm stuck on tvtropes.  *click* *click* *click*

[Deon]

Yeah, the blast furnace should take pure iron ore, not iron ore. I will release a patch, probably this evening, with placeholder reactions/buildings and fixes for the ironworks (and tetrahedrite ).

By the way, I'm tweaking the races' descriptions. With the help of TvTropes (damn you who posted a link!) I've changed sylvan elves' description:

The Sylvan elves aren't cute little fairy folk who flutter happily around the forest. Sylvan elves don't make children toys or live deep in forests with no interaction with mortals. At best, they would interact with humans and dwarves with either no thought to the consequences of their actions or delight in the mess they're making of mortal lives. At worst, they're doing dangerous things with their nature magic, kidnap children and steal animals' milk. A variety of superstitions were developed to keep the sylvan elves at bay or to pacify them. Salt could keep a baby from being stolen. There were occasions when steel, crosses, sacred symbols and weapon traps scared them away. Depending on the origin of birth, they may also hate the sound of bells. Some people put out offerings of milk or food for them at night.



I wish I could mod the Wild Hunt into the game .

[rainekage]

Yeah, the blast furnace should take pure iron ore, not iron ore. I will release a patch, probably this evening, with placeholder reactions/buildings and fixes for the ironworks (and tetrahedrite ).

By the way, I'm tweaking the races' descriptions. With the help of TvTropes (damn you who posted a link!) I've changed sylvan elves' description:

The Sylvan elves aren't cute little fairy folk who flutter happily around the forest. Sylvan elves don't make children toys or live deep in forests with no interaction with mortals. At best, they would interact with humans and dwarves with either no thought to the consequences of their actions or delight in the mess they're making of mortal lives. At worst, they're doing dangerous things with their nature magic, kidnap children and steal animals' milk. A variety of superstitions were developed to keep the sylvan elves at bay or to pacify them. Salt could keep a baby from being stolen. There were occasions when steel, crosses, sacred symbols and weapon traps scared them away. Depending on the origin of birth, they may also hate the sound of bells. Some people put out offerings of milk or food for them at night.



I wish I could mod the Wild Hunt into the game .

At least for me, the finishing forge and crucible both require iron, not pure iron, as well.  Is this intentional to make steel-working harder?

Wild Hunt.  Now need to go read the The Dresden Files again.

[Deon]

I was not sure about that, I wanted to make steel making harder, but actually all it does... it just needs more fuel.

What's your opinion on the subject? I will make sure I decide which way do I want it to be BEFORE the next release, so it's okay .

[rainekage]

I was not sure about that, I wanted to make steel making harder, but actually all it does... it just needs more fuel.

What's your opinion on the subject? I will make sure I decide which way do I want it to be BEFORE the next release, so it's okay .

Hmm.  Honestly, adding fuel to it "does" make it harder, since you have to use embark points on more fuel, or spend more time searching for fuel sources on the map, and it takes more time to get to steel.  But once you get a blast furnace up, that becomes moot anyway.

Argh, this is actually a pretty hard decision.  I like steel being harder, and while this doesn't make it "harder", it does make it more time-consuming.  I'm also unsure how else to make steel-making harder, without adding in a specific stone or metal to supplement it (since it would negate the purpose of having red or black steel, as well as make steel making impossible in many embarks without importation).

Then again?  I haven't gotten to use the blast furnace much, so I'm not the one to ask on that.  I think if you want to make it more expensive, or more time-consuming, then keep the Pure->Normal->Steel reaction.  But it would only equal the embark points of a spaniel.

Sorry if that was rambling.  I'd say I'm actually pretty undecided, but am leaning towards Pure-Normal-steel, if only because it makes it more time consuming for early production.

[Patchouli]

Will work on E-G now. Probably won't get it done until Friday/Saturday though.

It's starting to wind down to large groups making up each letter.

I also made a change to one of the entries. Like I said, I'll re-send the full updates list when we've got all the letters.

EDIT: Decided to work on E also, since it's fairly short.

[TomiTapio]

I was not sure about that, I wanted to make steel making harder, but actually all it does... it just needs more fuel.
What's your opinion on the subject? I will make sure I decide which way do I want it to be BEFORE the next release, so it's okay .

And more fuel is provided by the "1 log stack into 2 charcoal" wood furnace. It does make it harder with the two methods (flux or pig iron) and extra workshops. It's good to let people also choose non-flux sites.
I hope the need for fuel is driving dorfs to get the trees that grow in the dangerous caverns. And encourages growing your own tower-caps in dug soil caves.

IRL the biggest redwood trees weigh 500 000 kg; in DF all trees are about 200 kg (but weigh 22-37 kg in-game to fit caravans and haulers) and create one 75 kg table (length 1.2-2.3 m I imagine).

I like the "pure iron" step, lets you make "pure iron anvils" so can make finishing forges, and export pure iron items (chains, buckets, barrels). I hate the hardcoded 20-60% metal loss the "melt object" command has.
And "Iron" is actually low-grade steel whereas "steel" is high-grade stuff. But some people will be totally confused by ore->pure iron->iron->pig iron->steel sequence.

What would make iron and steel harder to get would be to change the ore so iron ores don't yield 100% but 35% metal. Those ore largeclusters are too huge for good game balance.
Bronze, that is actually hard to get since it requires two metals. Cobalt gear is heavy (slows down your soldiers) but quite plentiful on some maps, and too simple to smelt. Maybe cobalt could require some extra work (fuel, rockgrinder step) since it's not in the vanilla DF.

EditN: here's a savegame of my current fort, right before bushfire releases lots of caged foes.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/Lakedisk%20autumn%205%20bushfire%20-%20region11.zip
Bugger, it's called Lakedike but I failed.

You know you can just set the blood for dumping, mark the barrel for trading when merchants are at the depot then the dwarves will carry the barrel to the depot and leave a puddle of blood/ichor/venom on the ground?  This should get cleaned up afterwards by a dwarf.

Thanks. I'd rather "j-m-q use blood as fertiliser" make it go away instead of mark-dump, barrel-to-depot conditional thing.
I also dislike "build cage, build lever, build link between them, pull lever to release were". So I don't do it.

[SandyDorf]

G'day Deon.

Found another error while looking through the raws.
All of the batch iron works take 6 bars/ore of iron and 4 bars of coal.. except for the magma bars of iron one which takes 6 (900 units) bars of coal.
I think you meant to put that as 4 bars (600 units).

File in question is 'reaction_ironworks.txt'