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[asfghn]

While Aramco admittedly does have a point, I don't usually (read: at all) frequent (or even visit) DFFD except to follow direct links to download tilesets, etc, so I appreciate that you posted that region here, Morwaul! I am digging it (HA), especially all that delicious, delicious iron.

But I have a dumb question of my own! While the inquiry re: werewolf adventurers still stands, now I need to ask an embarrassingly noobish question re: trap design. That is to say, I have pretty much never had an actively hostile fort, so now I have no idea how to design traps effectively that won't murder my own dwarves/pets/tamed dragons, etc. Does anyone have any tips they're especially fond of? Right now I have some clunky thing involving pressure plates just inside the 3-tile-wide caravan entrance in the walls that drops into an empty room, but I am not sure what to do with it beyond this point. The war raptors tied to the gates tend to catch all thieves, but not really do anything about them, which is pretty weird.

[SirAaronIII]

10 steel menacing spikes or spears on each square of the empty room.
Or, build a 1-tile wide path across the pressure-plate area (you'll have to remove them), channel down deeper in the empty room, then channel down again, and again, and again, until you feel you've gone deep enough. Then make a bunch of glass or copper or whatever extra weak materials you can muster up (wood works well too) trap bits and put 10 in a trap on each square of the thin path. Enemies will try to dodge the weak attacks, and fall down to their dooms. You should probably build retracting bridges on the sides of the floor to let caravans in.

Code: [Select]

0z
#.^.# -Bridges should go on this level
#.^.#  on the left & right of the traps.
#.^.#
#.^.#
-1z
#...#
#...#
#...#
#...#
-2z
#...#
#...#
#...#
#...#

-3z, etc. as far as you want. Deeper is better!# = walls
^ = completely loaded weapons traps
. = empty/channeled space
Sorry if that was kinda long-winded. The basic thing is thin path + weak weapons traps + deeeeeeeeep pit = enemies falling down
This is called a "Dodge This!" trap.

[asfghn]

Oh my goodness SirAaron, thank you SO MUCH. I had actually been really worried and fretful about posting this at all since it's not specific to Genesis and a pretty dumb noob concern anyway (I mean really, who even graduates DF School without learning how to build approximately eight hundred grisly unique traps?), so longwinded is FANTASTIC.

I am eager to try out this Dodge This! trap, it appeals to me in every conceivable sense. I am worried I will screw it up somehow (I am more of a visual learner and so learn better by doing than reading*), so I will actually be a Sensible Gamer for once and make a save file first, but would it be okay if I PM you with screenshots or something if I need additional assistance?



*Like actually, one thing that just occurred to me that I've been fretting about reading other trap designs is, how is my miner going to get out of the deeeeeeep pit? This has always concerned me regarding pits in general, and would probably be solved by just digging a deep pit and seeing what happens, but hey, if you can't make dumb, noobish posts, then what's the point of a forum?

[SirAaronIII]

Feel free to PM me. I probably won't reply for 14 hours or so (sleep + classes  ), but do it anyway! I won't mind.

Anyway, to get out of the pit, just add a little access tunnel blocked by a stone door, preferably superior or higher quality. (In case you confuse the quality symbols with each other, it's the flat looking *). With a nice deep pit ( with spikes if you wanna be a HUGE dick), most foes are going to be easy to finish. In visual terms, something like this:

Spoiler:  It's a continuation of the 1st diagram, for convenience (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

-xz, where x is really far down
###>#
###.#
###D#
#|||#
#|||#
#|||#
#|||##= wall
D= door
|= spikes (optional but fun
.= floor
>= stairs up, lead to fort

Yeah you should PM for sure. We're kind of derailing the Genesis thread.

[Deon]

Hair, scale, toughscale, nails, toughnails, teeth, toughteeth, cheese were set to rot... I think those should be non-rotting.

Cave fish skin (and all bird leathers smaller than sheep) should be removed but I've forgotten how to do it without removing the living creature's skin.
(Wikipedia: lamb deer elk, "Buffalo, goats, alligators, dogs, snakes, ostriches, kangaroos, oxen, and yaks may also be used for leather." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather#Leather_from_other_animals )

Idiot dorfs do go into the dangerous caves to clean blood off natural walls. Remove hauling and cleaning labors from your elite crafters using Dwarf Therapist.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Viewing militia who have Finnish first names in the fort of Paintbrushed. Skill 5+ is hero or elite, 1-3 is "mtr" "militia trainee".

Cheese, as any other type of food, always rots. I removed rotting from nails (what can you use those for?), teeth and scale.

Quivers sit happily in my Finished Goods bins. Cut gems probably too?

The quivers that won't go are (cave fish skin quivers). Is it possibly a material restriction of some kind? I do have a finished goods stockpile that is accepting bins, and it has all finished goods enabled, but the quivers are still sitting in the wagon a year later.

I've fixed the "cave fish skin" bug. Basically its leather was removed, but not skin, so it had no appropriate material (leather) but still was registered as a creature which can be used for a leather industry (because of the skin).

I've also added [NOMEAT] and [CAN_LEARN] to lost adventurers, it should fix the "lost adventurer tripe" (they were always non-butcherable).

I think actually at one point Deon wanted me to look over and rewrite some of the descs for legibility. Would there still be any interest in that? I'm pretty much useless on the coding end for anything but what I just mentioned above, but I can write! 8D

It would be great . Just update the uploaded version with your changes, I will find them by myself.

[rainekage]

Fortress Update:
Not a match for the dragon raptor, who took down my fiercest warrior faster than it took for me to see there was a fight, the rest of my fort went about their business, and he wandered off.  Buried him neck to my trade depot in an iron sarcophagus and a statue of him being terrified by bats (he had a grudge with my mason, it turns out).


I'm starting a new world and new embark, because I really want to make an entrance to my fortress that includes a retractable bridge across a deep, natural canyon, so I can fling enemies off of it

Genesis stuff:

Tomi, you suggested steel via pig iron.  this is excellent, since it does not require flux, but I've wondered - if you do have flux, is there any benefit to the pig iron method?

I adore halberds, so two of my four military have them (One immigrated with the skill, even).  But this raises a question:

How on earth do you train the damn things?  I mean, outside of practical combat.  On a training dummy, could you use "train spear"?  A halberd is a polearm, so I'm not sure where it fits in.

Another question (I'm so full of them) - I know the difference between helms and caps - Is there any practical benefit or difference concerning spiked helms and one-horned helms compared to the standard two?

[Deon]

How on earth do you train the damn things?  I mean, outside of practical combat.  On a training dummy, could you use "train spear"?  A halberd is a polearm, so I'm not sure where it fits in.

Good riddance. You cannot train halberds and pikes on training dummies... And while it makes a bit of sense, still it's an oversight (as well as a cookable black grog). I will fix it.

[rainekage]

How on earth do you train the damn things?  I mean, outside of practical combat.  On a training dummy, could you use "train spear"?  A halberd is a polearm, so I'm not sure where it fits in.

Good riddance. You cannot train halberds and pikes on training dummies... And while it makes a bit of sense, still it's an oversight (as well as a cookable black grog). I will fix it.

Curses, my stoutly warriors will no longer have above-human-sized polearms!

I figured it was an oversight, but they were fun while they lasted.

Giving all military spiked helms without actually knowing if they're worth it is probably silly, but I ride in style.

[Jeoshua]

Well, when making a pen and paper RPG of my own, I had spears and polearms as one skill.  It only made sense that way (since a spear is basically a knife on a pole, hence it's kind of a type of polearm no?)

So I'd probably make any polearms, halberds, lances, spears, and the like use the spear skill here, too.

[Deon]

Maybe you've made a pnp RPG, but I bet you didn't train with them . The difference between a sword and an axe hit is smaller than between a spear and a pike stab . I'm not talking about halberds because they have a totally different balance in the first place.

[Jeoshua]

Yeah they're more like Axes.  I struggled with it in my game but basically it came down to the idea that they're all moving the point of contact onto the end of a pole.  The mechanics might be different but with a limited amount of skills, either they should go into the category most like what they are (meaning halberds are just "pole axes" and spears are "pole daggers"), or they use a specific skill that encompasses them all (spear/polearm).

And for the record yeah, I've used both in Martial Arts training.  So I know that a katana and a naginata are nothing similar in usage.

[Deon]

Huh, still I meant that it makes more sense to combine an axe/mace or sword with something than spear with halberd .

So I know that a katana and a naginata are nothing similar in usage.

I used only models, so no real world counterparts. It would be cool to have "general" skills and specific "weapon" skills . Like "fighter" and "swordsman", just more complex.

[Torgan]

Tomi, you suggested steel via pig iron.  this is excellent, since it does not require flux, but I've wondered - if you do have flux, is there any benefit to the pig iron method?

It's just quicker with flux I think, you can use the blast furnace to make 6 bars of steel at once using iron ore, coal and flux rather than smelt iron bars, smelt pig iron bars then smelt steel.  I think you're using less iron using flux as well.

Deon-I don't think nails and scale are used for anything.  Teeth can be used by a bonecarver to make tooth trade goods.

[rainekage]

Post deleted, because I type slowly and missed the disagreement.  Points to Jeoshua for liking naginatas.

Hey Deon, you mentioned in a release note that you made blast furnaces "More efficient", but I didn't see any notes on how.  I'm sure I just failed to read something, so I'm sorry, but what were the changes?

And thanks for the info, Torgan.

On another note, spiked helmets make me want there to be a headbutt command.  It would be very dwarvenly (or dorfenly, depending on your mood) to make one's head a weapon, especially a steel dwarf.

Edit:  Ah, checked the help file.  Half the flux, and only four coal.  Actually, now I can't see myself "not" using it, as long as I have flux.

A non Genesis question: Can a creature killed in combat (say, a raptor) be butchered and skinned?  I know it's possible to get raptor leather, but my dwarves refuse to turn anything I kill outside the slaughter command into meat or leather.

Then again, the last time that worked was 40d, so it might just be me not catching up with changes.

Very sorry if I talk too much or ask too many questions, everyone.

[GaxkangtheUnbound]

Try designating a refuse stockpile close to your butchery. Corpses that are killed outside or too far away won't be deemed butcherable.