Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 272 273 [274] 275 276 ... 642

Author Topic: [40.24] ۩۩۩ Genesis Mod ۩۩۩ [ϟ .11c Old Genesis ϟ] - 0.40.25 update by TomiTapio  (Read 1241819 times)

Urist is dead tome

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4095 on: December 05, 2010, 10:20:21 pm »

I can't get the graphics version so I tried to get the ASC2 but it won't work. Specifically I download it, go to the downloads page, double click and extract it. But for this it just opens a new tab and downloads it again. Anyone know what this is?
Logged

TomiTapio

  • Bay Watcher
  • OldGenesis since 2012
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr animal photos
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4096 on: December 06, 2010, 02:20:28 am »

...What does Illithid toxin do?
Causes dizziness. Just a minor advantage during melee. Simulates a weak mind blast attack. Maybe you get the "stunned" status from it, I can't remember.
in chasm monster illithid: [CE_PARALYSIS:SEV:300:PROB:100:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DILUTES:START:5:PEAK:10:END:20]
in civilization creature_illithid: [CE_DIZZINESS:SEV:300:PROB:100:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DILUTES:START:5:PEAK:10:END:20]

Nords are AWESOME! I am currently a Nord adventurer and asked two axemen if they could join me. I was surprised they wanted to. Soon after, nearly every Nord i ask joins.  8) 8)
I think you need to slay 1-5 animals or goblins first to get a reputation, then you get people to follow you. (.31.12 memories)
Nords use the language_finnish file which I made using my native language  :D

Out of curiosity, about how much stronger is hide/fang then leather/teeth normally? I assume it doesn't beat out metal or anything?
I made the tough materials, and just put 2x values to them. And little bit more tooth max_edge. Deon approved the materials and they're now a core part of the Genesis mod :)
But it's a huge advantage in battle, having double strength skin, muscles, bones, teeth, sinews. Pity the dwarf who tries to defeat a cavern monster with her fists.
My arena test at the time: tough-material elephant vs normal : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/arena_20_tough-ele_vs_20_ele_.csv

Quote
Quote from: toupz on 18-11-2010, 09:32:22    Bone weapon can be good with good material+skill? I wanna make a dragon bone sword lol

Bone and ToughBone unfortunately can never have as good a cutting edge as metals. Unless you change toughbone's MAXEDGE parameter.
Toughbone [MAX_EDGE:2000], copper [MAX_EDGE:11500], steel [MAX_EDGE:27500] ...
Deon has decided to call toughbone material "bone" to simplify things for some players. Anyone got a suggestion for a short name for bones that are much (2x) stronger than human bones? Thesaurus has "os".
Deon, could we upgrade toughbone and toughclaws to 7500 edge?

(I'll look it up. Toughmuscle cutting resistance numbers are    [SHEAR_YIELD:40000]   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:40000]   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100000] (human muscle 20k 20k 50k)
and copper    [SHEAR_YIELD:70000]   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:220000]   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:145]
so you'll always prefer a 1-inch copper armor to a 1-inch ogre-muscle armor.)

Genesis 3.18 ascii's download works okay for me, it is
http://dffd.wimbli.com/download.php?id=3391&f=deons+genesis+3.18+ASCII.rar
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 02:31:42 am by TomiTapio »
Logged
==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
47.05e release: http://dffd.bay12games.com/who.php?id=1538
OldGenesis screenshots: https://twitter.com/hashtag/OldGenesis?src=hashtag_click&f=image
My Finnish language file: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14884

Seriyu

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Springless Clock
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4097 on: December 06, 2010, 03:13:42 am »

Ah, I see, primarily for the benefit of the creature, the minor boost to leather armor is just a bonus. :P

Thanks!

Slax

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4098 on: December 06, 2010, 07:44:27 am »

I can't get the graphics version so I tried to get the ASC2 but it won't work. Specifically I download it, go to the downloads page, double click and extract it. But for this it just opens a new tab and downloads it again. Anyone know what this is?
Open WinRar (or whatever you use), drag the file to it, extract and you're done.
Logged

Axecleaver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4099 on: December 06, 2010, 02:54:59 pm »

Might it be possible to disable caravan guards from being obsidian dwarves? Four times now the dwarven caravan has been ambushed, an obsidian dwarf guard shoots off a fireball and the dwarven and orcish caravans (and the ambush, to be fair) burn to death chasing each other around in the flames.

I'm actually thinking of modding Obsidian dwarves out of my next game.  They're more annoying than anything.  Anytime they sense danger, they start belching fire all over the place, and I've never seen it do anything to an enemy.  All it does is ensure my fortress lawn will never be anything but an ashen waste.

hum steel dwarves are overpowered a bit.... just had one get stabbed through the heart, and both lungs, and he healed before he died........ so he's now running around happily with 3 massive scars on his chest.

Giant Gargoyles can't bleed out.  I think this is related to them not having anything listed as blood.  Ex.
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae125/Background_Guy/gargoylebug.jpg?t=1290905956

Is there a certain size the world needs to be to get attacks and wild creatures?  I usually make a world with all settings in the middle but ive never seen any weird beings or monsters in over 10 forts..
Typically, the longer the world gen, the less megabeasts active from being killed off, though they don't get cut down like butter in gen like they used to. I can't really vouch for that being the main reason, as the titan and megabeast pop/wealth requirements probably have a MUCH larger role in things. To be fair, I haven't done but one fort in Genesis and I haven't been back to it in a while...

...I never really input all that much anyway, other than rambling and sometimes bringing up balance issues on accident, like Illithid's poison.

I genned a world stopping at 300 years, and went adventuring.
...
Now, I'm pretty tough already, not legendary, but grand master sword user, using a plain steel short-sword I found. I went to fight a Dragon, and the thing was thick, I had to put it unconscious and keep banging its head so it would die..of blood loss.

My militia in Baldedgilds have beat several gargoyles to death with their bare hands, including a giant one.  It's pretty funny imagining these dwarves shattering marble with their fists and wearing it away until they're beating on this unconscious creature's stone internal organs, and finally my steel dwarf commander, Fleshring, embeds his fist all the way into the thing's solid rock skull.  Dwarves of The Special Dike are tough!  They probably don't even need pickaxes to dig out their homes, just fingernails.

...I guess we can add to Deon's to-do list: "make balors as tough as bronze colossi."  8)
Give them skill levels, and perhaps 3x or 4x uber-muscle-tissue (or muscles made of red steel).

If you are a dwarf, balors pose no problem, as you are fire immune, and the main trouble I had with mine was that every scratch I gave it made it gout flaming magma gas stuffs.

Okay, I'm doing Genesis tweaking now.
...
Gave skills to my creatures (creature_custom_tt.txt). Beware the giant otter's bite and twisting-away(wrestling) skill.
...
Gave skills to SCORPION_DESERT_GIANT and tigermen...
Lions etc. get wrestling skill, you know they can twist away from your grasp.

Foxes and wolves get more skills...
Little foxes about 2-3 level skill, giant lions 5-6. Wolf awareness 7.
...
Kangaroos, added [BIOME:DESERT_BADLAND] (not a sand desert) and frequency from 5 to 25. And kicking and wrestling skill.
Skills to anubites, cave carp, armorman and nith. And muskox, elk, polar bear, reindeer, elk bird, and the cat-sized CRUNDLE.
...
Manera, the wall-crawler, gets FLIER to simulate wall-climbing. Beware, if you make home in the caves.
Blind cave bear upgrade...
Wrestling skills to raptors... I think they were one of Deon's favorite beasts. I don't think they dodge 5, more like 3. Jump-to-side isn't what pack predators do...

Out of curiosity, about how much stronger is hide/fang then leather/teeth normally? I assume it doesn't beat out metal or anything?
I made the tough materials, and just put 2x values to them. And little bit more tooth max_edge. Deon approved the materials and they're now a core part of the Genesis mod :)
But it's a huge advantage in battle, having double strength skin, muscles, bones, teeth, sinews. Pity the dwarf who tries to defeat a cavern monster with her fists.
My arena test at the time: tough-material elephant vs normal...

I really want to like Genesis Mod!

As I'm reading other mod threads and longing to incorporate certain mods into my game, I keep stumbling across posts by Deon which stated he was already incorporating (or was considering the inclusion of) said mod into Genesis. And all I can think is, "cool!" This is especially nice, since many of those mods are outdated and wouldn't work with the latest DF build without a lot of effort.

Genesis seems to have just about every feature I could possibly want in a mod.

I love the new materials and workshops in Metals Revamped, not to mention Adventure mode Spellcraft and Crafting, Soil is Fun, Expanded bestiary, Flavortext Mod, and even the Additional Features. I can even appreciate some (though not all) of the new races and castes that were added.

However... I have some serious issues with balance. And, from what I'm reading, it seems that the development of Genesis may be going in the OPPOSITE direction from my play style.

What I'm reading suggests:

* With their fire, Obsidian Dwarves are not only overpowered, but dangerous to everyone - even themselves.
* Steel Dwarves seem way too overpowered - to the point that the only reason I can see why anyone would want to play as any other dwarf (with the possible exception of Apid Dwarves)is to have a greater challenge.
* The acid breath of Aspid Dwarves seems overpowered. Even if their breath was fixed so it didn't incinerate stuff, I can see it as giving them a huge advantage in combat.

But I can deal with that much. What bothers me even more is how 'beefed-up' a lot of monsters, megabeasts, and races are in general. And the development plans seem to lean almost entirely toward making them even tougher and more bad@** ? (It almost seems as if there's a trend toward munchkinism... or a desire to tell tales on the scale of The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.)

For instance, just one person complains about how easy it is (for a tough dwarf with Grand Master sword skill) to slaughter a balor and the response is to "Give them skill levels, and perhaps 3x or 4x uber-muscle-tissue" ? (Nevermind the fact that most of the balor's attacks were innefectual merely because the dwarf had fire immunity.) And I see talk about giving all these new skills to other critters, even mundane creatures? (Seems counterintuitive to me to give skills to non-intelligent animals.)

Don't get me wrong, I can see some improvement towards balance in Genesis. Someone pointed out that megabeasts no longer "get cut down like butter... like they used to." (Though, I also see concern that even now not enough megabeasts survive for the player to face.) But as I said, the general trend seems to be toward making DF more of a challenge.

The reason I'm writing is to ask if there's any possibility you would consider branching off Genesis into two versions:

* Hardcore Edition - for experienced, hardcore DF players who look to Genesis to breath new life into DF by providing ever increasing challenges and who can appreciate the development toward an ever increasing variety in experiencing FUN.

* Newby Edition - for inexperienced DF players and those who prefer a leisurly pace and play experience, but who still desire to experience DF with the amazing new materials, workshops, spellcraft, crafting, soil, bestiary, and flavortext. For those who prefer their bestiary to consist of unskilled, dumb animals. Also, for those who prefer that the ambushes, races, monsters and megabeasts to be only slightly more challenging than vanilla DF.

I will understand if that is asking too much. But, perhaps additional files could be included with simple instructions how how to "neuter" the game to make something similar to a 'Newby Edition'? Perhaps a method to easily disable certain races and monsters that some would consider overpowered? (For that matter, I'd be happy with a version of Genesis without any new races, castes, or creatures and then I could manually combine this with Legendary Lands or similar.)

Urist is dead tome

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4100 on: December 06, 2010, 03:09:04 pm »

It seems that my computer is too stupid. I tried other things for which to put it on (I don't have WinRar.) but the thing just immediately stops responding and I have to kill it. Does anyone know a place where I can get some sort of walk through(?) Cause I keep hearing how great Genesis is. It's kinda teasing.
Logged

TomiTapio

  • Bay Watcher
  • OldGenesis since 2012
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr animal photos
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4101 on: December 06, 2010, 04:22:15 pm »

Thanks for the feedback! I do creature tweaking and most of the time Deon approves of my changes.

However... I have some serious issues with balance. And, from what I'm reading, it seems that the development of Genesis may be going in the OPPOSITE direction from my play style.

* With their fire, Obsidian Dwarves are not only overpowered, but dangerous to everyone - even themselves.
* Steel Dwarves seem way too overpowered - to the point that the only reason I can see why anyone would want to play as any other dwarf (with the possible exception of Apid Dwarves)is to have a greater challenge.
Yep, we got munchkinism, there's even rare super-swords one can get from altar-of-war sacrificing reaction. It's Deon's mod.
I don't think Obsidian firebreath really hurts the wildlife. Try arena 10 obsidian vs 10 ogres. I'd prefer than Deon replaced it with a "spit a glob of toxin". Big forest fire is annoying, but sometimes EPIC. I do want some random explosions, hmm perhaps a 2% chance in workshop X for a poison puddle to be produced...

Balor... the megabeasts Should Not die of "ten dwarves punch it a lot". (might be a major flaw somewhere in the punching combat coding, or dwarf strength.)  I find vanilla DF's megabeasts too puny. And ridiculous that a wooden cage trap gets a dragon/wyvern. (Toady made all random-generated megabeasts trap-avoiding!)
Most animals in vanilla are all the same default speed, so horse and rat and ogre are the same speed. And dwarves outrun running-optimized mammals like deer.

I say that a megabeast should pose a similar threat like ten axe-goblins, that is, 2-6 dead iron-armor dwarf soldiers.

* Newby Edition - for inexperienced DF players and those who prefer a leisurely pace and play experience, but who still desire to experience DF with the amazing new materials
Current Genesis looks like hardcore edition to me, especially if one sets the siege triggers to low (made 100k wealth -> siege). Hardest factor might be how often sieges come, at worst might have four civs sieging you and then the orcs come and try to sell you cheese.

I suppose it would be easy to make a patch file that changes all the dwarves to be stronger faster more durable, thus making all fort-defending 2-3 times easier. All dwarves to steel caste, easy version done.
I still want the Elk to be deadlier in combat than the Deer, the tiger to bite better than the cheetah, and the Cave Ogre to punch and wrestle better than the outdoors Ogre.

ps. current caverns-home glacier fort, casualties from cave croc, giant bat, scorpion, giant cave spider, and Lost Adventurers. In short, from poison and paralysis bites.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 04:27:54 pm by TomiTapio »
Logged
==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
47.05e release: http://dffd.bay12games.com/who.php?id=1538
OldGenesis screenshots: https://twitter.com/hashtag/OldGenesis?src=hashtag_click&f=image
My Finnish language file: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14884

SalmonGod

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nyarrr
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4102 on: December 06, 2010, 04:27:26 pm »

Quote
* With their fire, Obsidian Dwarves are not only overpowered, but dangerous to everyone - even themselves.
* Steel Dwarves seem way too overpowered - to the point that the only reason I can see why anyone would want to play as any other dwarf (with the possible exception of Apid Dwarves)is to have a greater challenge.

My complaint about Obsidian dwarves is they're way underpowered.  I've never seen their firebreath effect anything but grass.  I've never seen the slightest mark made on any enemy or any friendly fire effects.  All it results in is every genesis mod fort having an outdoors that's constantly reduced to ashes.  As soon a stuff starts to grow back, there's another obsidian dwarf encounter and they burn every blade of grass on the map down again.  After the initial novelty of the dramatic imagery, it becomes more annoying than anything.

I don't have much of a problem with steel dwarves.  I've never got one trained up to legendary or anything (I don't do danger rooms).  I've had several die on me, usually when their non-steel squadmates get killed leaving them alone and surrounded.  They'll put up a helluva fight, but they will die.  I've had at least one get randomly one-shotted, too.  They're so rare, that you're unlikely to have more than 4 or 5 at a time anyway, unless your fort gets pretty old and they've had a long-running higher survival rate than everyone else.  I kind of like that they give us an opportunity to get a taste in DF2010 of the crazy heroics of 40d when stats didn't have a hardcoded upper limit.
Logged
In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Axecleaver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4103 on: December 06, 2010, 04:31:22 pm »

It seems that my computer is too stupid. I tried other things for which to put it on (I don't have WinRar.)...
I'm not sure about a walk through. But if you just need WinRar to uncompress a .RAR file, you could just download the free 7-zip program and use that. It supports just about every compression format in use today. To use 7-zip, just right click on a file and in the menu choose "7-Zip", then "Open archive" or "Extract Here".

TomiTapio

  • Bay Watcher
  • OldGenesis since 2012
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr animal photos
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4104 on: December 06, 2010, 04:35:33 pm »

It seems that my computer is too stupid. I tried other things for which to put it on (I don't have WinRar.) but the thing just immediately stops responding and I have to kill it. Does anyone know a place where I can get some sort of walk through
Ah, you must install a program that can open RAR archives. WinRAR or 7zip. What OS do you have?
Try this page: http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-32-bit/3000-2250_4-10007677.html
this page recommends Bitzipper which I have never heard of:  http://www.tech-pro.net/howto-open-rar-file.html

I don't have much of a problem with steel dwarves.  I've never got one trained up to legendary or anything (I don't do danger rooms).  I've had several die on me, usually when their non-steel squadmates get killed leaving them alone and surrounded.
I think Bsperan was talking about adventure mode and how playing a steel caste is the only logical choice there.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 04:37:44 pm by TomiTapio »
Logged
==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
47.05e release: http://dffd.bay12games.com/who.php?id=1538
OldGenesis screenshots: https://twitter.com/hashtag/OldGenesis?src=hashtag_click&f=image
My Finnish language file: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14884

Urist is dead tome

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4105 on: December 06, 2010, 04:56:39 pm »

Thanks guys! I was lookin' forward to this mod. And now it's mine!
Logged

Ovg

  • Bay Watcher
  • ♥ Pretty Princess ♥
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4106 on: December 06, 2010, 05:00:20 pm »

Same stuff with all other kinds of games.

For example in pnp games you can minmax and be an unstoppable broken beyond repair war machine or you can be a 'normal' adventurer.

The player decides how hard he wants his game to be. In the end, you've still got human intelligence and you're capable of fully using all kinds of unconventional tactics and the AI is just what it is, artificial. No creative thinking whatsoever.

On the other hand I do agree about fire-spitting dwarves. I HATE how they burn the map. That's why I've switched them off (deleted their caste).

Damn, got all that rambling on again...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 05:02:44 pm by Ovg »
Logged

Jacob/Lee

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4107 on: December 06, 2010, 07:46:15 pm »

Try building constructions out on the grass so the fire won't spread everywhere and torch everything.

BigD145

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4108 on: December 06, 2010, 08:00:27 pm »

Build some roads to section off the map? Does fire only spread to adjacent?
Logged

inEQUALITY

  • Bay Watcher
  • Living On the Mirror's Edge
    • View Profile
Re: ۩۩۩ ஃ Genesis Mod ஃ ۩۩۩ [ϟ 3.18 ϟ] - long worldgen again!
« Reply #4109 on: December 06, 2010, 08:02:52 pm »

Build some roads to section off the map? Does fire only spread to adjacent?

That's how it's supposed to work I'm thinking.
Logged
Quote from: Carl Sagan
It does no harm to the romance of the sunset to know a little bit about it.
If the magma cannon doesn't count, they aren't proper scientists.
Pages: 1 ... 272 273 [274] 275 276 ... 642