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[TomiTapio]

Time to start a new fort! I changed my creatures biomes a little, more critters in rocky desert and badlands. (After seeing desert giraffes documentary)
that no-caverns no-magma, one layer of stone ONLY fort wasn't much fun after realized there's only werewolves as the enemy.

ps. removed Flier from illithid-creature, they're not superman, only psionic.
added [AMBUSHPREDATOR] to tiger and giant tiger.
still want a rabbit-like creature for caves, maybe I'll call them "hoppers" and they survive by fleeing and eating cave plants.


Handledyes log...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-- KäsitteleVäriaine, Handledyes, region28
4x4 temp.swamp untamed, heavy forest. mountain.

start with 14 copper, 1+2 rabbits, 1+2 lions.
make two leather armors and many quivers. make axe,pick,axe,pick,daggers.
217 fps, 4x4 embark, 7 citizens, 0+7 animals, 3 cavern layers (none opened). 0k wealth. 25 stones.
lignite in first digging.
plant radishes outdoors since that's what we have found.
hooray magnetite!
see rabbits and warthogs.
(can not press Esc from try-to-build-well. close image editor, solved.)
Year 1 summer.
oh, there's limonite and magnetite on the cliffsides.

A bronze statue (Tomi's creature) is smashing workshops!! it moves so quietly and is camouflaged with bird crap.
fight! we only break its eyes and fingers with our copper weapons. war lions useless. give up the fight and just avoid it. hope it wanders away.
farmer died. steel leader has bruised guts and a broken lung.
(172 fps, ponds slosh about thanks to safety ramps)

butcher our camel. chase some warthogs. axe makes half-hogs.
hooray migrants! got a good brewer, buthcer, farmer, master mason.
155 fps, 4x4 embark, 15 citizens, 3+9 animals, 3 cavern layers (none opened). 9k wealth. 215 stones.
make first mushroom farms.
Year 1 autumn. get baby rabbits. see pigeons and one eagle, earlier the eagle was eyeing groundhogs.
make squad 2, crossbow newbies, just in case. send them to practice on pigeons, they do very poorly.
(130 fps)
no-one is smelting, and shale digging is rather slow.
migrants, including two steelers. we 22. herbalism and furnacing for the new arrivals. four novice hunters.
d'oh! no-one is set for blacksmithing. there, well got built.
Pasuuna steelpants (steel dwarf and clothier) gets cloth mood:
hunting: kaolinite-tip bolts bruise groundhogs.
another bronze damned statue!! victory with a migrant's black steel axe!! a war lion broke two legs.

it is now inanimate, half a statue of an orc, 1100 coins worth.
make a cage for the baby animals. baby lions play with baby rabbits.
hunting: shaletip bolts bruise goats. crossbow-bashing glances off the supergoats!
goat hunting is a fun sport!
home caravan. solid trading.
the people complain because the soups are hauled to the depot.
cloth artifact begins: pig tail fiber hauberk, 20k! iron and hella lot pig tail.

Year 1 winter. freezing. outdoors well broke.
steeler-leader still in hospital with bad lung.
send bow-squad to play with the slugmen. (s-b-k-l-ABC-enter)
90 barrels and counting.
captain gets mason mood: a boring shale bed, 2400 coins.
make steel weapons. too bad it's the one-lung steeler that is the smith.

dig down. way much shale. then gneiss and orthoclase. cassiterite.
some galena, nice.
find caves 1 at -15 downwards. GOLD!! with tetrahedrite.
Year 2 spring.
we found a "downward passage", most odd! they say it smells like troglodytes in the caves.

[TomiTapio]

Handledyes outdoors, 4x4, some mountainous, mostly swamp.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Handledyes caverns, 4x4, pink marble, bright yellow gold:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

caverns' parameters:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:84]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:84]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:7]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:7]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:15]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:80]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:7]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:2]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:40]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:40]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:80]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:21]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:30]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]

[A Dwarven Smokeologist]

Ah, I forgot an unrelated question - I have a large number of vellum, and a library - but no option to study anything - how do you use vellum for studying purposes?

Make a scriptorium (spelling is off maybe) and you can choose which types of tomes to write, then either hand out the task at the library to study or go through the job manager.

[McBeer]

Tell me sth - have you looked at fps before and after cave discovery?

[Z1000000m]

I too noticed that FPS constantly drops, like -20 fps every year (or so) with stable fort, even with inv off

That being said, I doubt its the right place to discuss that kind of stuff

That is mainly because the number of items on the map is growing. You should try to dump all kind of sh*t on the map.

Funny thing is that I noticed this when running a test fort for new df (back then, i think 06 or so). Inv off, low pop cap, pregnancies off etc. I was dumping every single useless stone, not making many crafts and not mining at all.

[McBeer]

I was dumping every single useless stone

Realize this, finally - dumping, smashing is NOT clearing, IMHO, data clutter.
IT IS STILL there, in memory, again, imho.
I am too small to ask Toady for clear confirmation, maybe some Elder one could.
For me this sounds plausible, especially if i can see GIGANTIC memory usage that is rising in time.

I tried to check, if dumping stone into 1x1 px space(compacting stone area) would help - it is NOT helping at all. Smashing is not helping at all too. Designated area size is not reason, imHo. Time for checking Deon's custom workshops influence with reacted materials(=specific clutter amount change)...this could help, maybe.

btw - every siege, even after whole fockin brigade leave finally(without fight, nor clutter left) is lowering fps too(pernamently).
Again, data is not cleared, imHo.

for some reason it reminds me Oblivion with >200 mods and thousands working scripts(even, if these scripts SHOULD NOT be processed from logical POV - but they are, just because engine is telling  that they should be processed).
Now i will shut up, before someone name me unfriendly madman spamming everywhere(even if i CARE).
DF is SO big game(i still cannot believe HOW complex technically it is, sweet LORD!), that i am not surprised, but...i wonder - what would be FPS timeline, if we strip civs to dwarves - i mean - is WHOLE MAP hitory/occurences are processed ALL the time(even, if after embark it is not...well, useful?). These technical solutions are more interestinf for me, that making chairs, you know I am curious, how it is working.
----
btw, fort i was talking about yesterday has..27 yrs, not 7, my bad). FPS=56 now, ZERO enemies, no caves discovered, massive amounts of clutter on map. I'd say: not bad, NOT BAD , but what will happen with fps in another 25 yrs?

Sorry for multiple edits, beer influence is obvious..

[Foamy]

Are things removed from memory if they are used in production? ie. does producing tonnes of rock crafts and selling them help?

[McBeer]

Are things removed from memory if they are used in production?

selling them help?

hah that's good questions: selling items is NOT helping(i assume, that EVERY single item made on our maps is..PROCESSED!, even if it is NOT ON MAP!(exported, destroyed, smashed, whatever)). That's point of my earlier post. I'd love to hear about this from someone that understand this engine. One thing to check - .12 has option to GIVE away brib..erm, items for free for lord of each civ - it could be good idea to check, what would happen after giving away...everything.
Problem: WEIGHT. no wagons=no method for check.
Well? Where are wagons? Cmon...

Game is ultimately fascinating, in many aspects. Toady is awesome man, even engine investigations are fascinating there.

Toady must be uberman.

Deon, i hope you will forgive me (for?) these posts - it is all about your mod greatness - i mean that Genesis is way for pushing DF to the limits, and whole thing is SO related to engine we do have now(.12).
What ennerves me - that we still can see so LITTLE from what's going on and how from engine POV(deep debug).

you know, i am in gaming and computers since 1984 and believe me, DF is just..damn, unique thing - i could tell that it may be BEST simulator ever made, what may leading to simulating WHOLE defined world in few (dozens) of years of developing.
Thing, that NOBODY done so far in history. Then - requirements will be extremely high, but actual state vs output is not entirely ok, imho. For me, determining clutter reason is very important now - small engine probs may rise in time, that's clear for me.

again, sry for multiple reedits of post and engrish.
please, tell me to stfu, if my thoughts are just..rubbish, it is hard to precisely articulate my thoughts in english, you know...i hope that someone feel like me, and understand my way of thinking about what do i see.

[oolon1]

I just installed and patched 3.11.  I'm getting all sorts of weirdness at the "prepare carefully" screen.  Ant lungs, silkworm kidneys, tame forgotten beast and cave fish men pets that cost 1 point.  The only silk cloth options are "frozen iron man gas cloth" and "unknown frozen creature substance cloth".  I'm guessing something's screwy with overwriting the raws, but I think I'll have to try "installing" everything again.

OK, this seems to be happening when I mod dwarf speed.  I've never had an issue with this before, so I'm guessing it has something to do with the raw layout.  Do I need to mod each caste section with a [SPEED: ] line, or what?

EDIT:  Nevermind.  It was caused by having a .bak file in with the txt files.  DF can't tell the difference.

[TomiTapio]

Have you thought about the bag/bin combining calculations, and does one get a FPS drop after making the first ~30 bins? Binless fort perhaps? Different binning parameters (set in init)?
Then there's the nano-fort (1x1 embark by executable hacking) players.

[LordShotGun]

Before the material rewrite, the metals for armor and weapons were pretty clear concerning "stats"

Clownium was best by FAR, then steel, then iron, then bronze, then copper, then wood/bone/other metals.

How about now? Are things still the same? How will your custom metals fit into this line up of power?

Also, any chance we could get the change logs on the front page? Its kinda hard to dig through weeks of comments to see what gets changed/removed/added.

[Deon]

I just installed and patched 3.11.  I'm getting all sorts of weirdness at the "prepare carefully" screen.  Ant lungs, silkworm kidneys, tame forgotten beast and cave fish men pets that cost 1 point.  The only silk cloth options are "frozen iron man gas cloth" and "unknown frozen creature substance cloth".  I'm guessing something's screwy with overwriting the raws, but I think I'll have to try "installing" everything again.

OK, this seems to be happening when I mod dwarf speed.  I've never had an issue with this before, so I'm guessing it has something to do with the raw layout.  Do I need to mod each caste section with a [SPEED: ] line, or what?

EDIT:  Nevermind.  It was caused by having a .bak file in with the txt files.  DF can't tell the difference.

It's good that you've figured it out. I've broken my head trying to figure out what in 3.11 could cause it .

Also, any chance we could get the change logs on the front page? Its kinda hard to dig through weeks of comments to see what gets changed/removed/added.

Sure, I will add a spoilered changelog under Download links.

How about now? Are things still the same? How will your custom metals fit into this line up of power?

"Clownium" is still the best for everything but hammers. It's supposed to be like that I guess.

please, tell me to stfu

Why? You're right. Even stolen babies still appear on map when you look with memory hacking programs. It still helps because you have smaller lists so the sold items are not processed every time a dwarf checks for materials, but they still sit somewhere in the save file.

Tell me sth - have you looked at fps before and after cave discovery?

Opening caverns SHOULD cause a FPS drop because there appears to be a way on the surface and in your fort and every underground critter (which are usually many) starts to calculate its possible routes to the surface (even without moving there).

Back in old HFS even when you wall off HFS after you discover it, you still get many clowns which started to try to pathfind to the surface and it caused TONS of lag. I don't think that pathfinding algorythm changed much during the version change.

[Deon]

Ah, I forgot an unrelated question - I have a large number of vellum, and a library - but no option to study anything - how do you use vellum for studying purposes?

Sorry, I missed your post . Make a scriptorium and use vellums to make tomes.

[Z1000000m]

big wall of text

Yeah well, when I say dumping I actually mean destroying the item completely, either by magma or AS. Stupid simplification.

Also, im suprised that i was right( or rather, was thinking right) about the data not being cleared (I mean, what else can it be when im not doing anything and still getting drops)
Its kind of a letdown since I abbandon when my fps with things turned off drops below 90 or so

[omglazers]

This isn't the fault of Genesis or anything, but generally speaking, am I the only one who hates trading because they always have to scroll through and reject giving items you accidentally brought to the depot?

No, I DONT want to give you those vellum or tomes, TAKE THE EFFIN MUGS!