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[Kromgar]

Deon it appears population cap is bugged in 3.25d because migrants never stop coming. Its getting to be ridiculous

[Putnam]

Mods can't bug that out.

[Kromgar]

Odd... i have 100 dwarves my pop cap was 40 and i have seen the liason since i was at 40 dwarves.(That was 2 years ingame)

[Mechanixm]

Deon it appears population cap is bugged in 3.25d because migrants never stop coming. Its getting to be ridiculous

I can vouch this isn't the case, at least in my game.  I'm sitting on a population of 121 dorks and I'm dying for some migrant waves. Pop cap is set at 200.

Too many legendary's...no one is hauling anything. 

[Reprah]

Deon, Mech, I obviously love you both for your efforts, but I'm a little worried about Mechanix's additions as they seem to make wood redundant -- rock anvils? Rock chains? Even rock vials? I know dwarves have rock affinity, and this is a fictional game, but to be honest this is suddenly verging sort of close to the precipice of cheap.

Now.. I obviously know your decision to include them would have been considered, but I just wanted to throw my $0.02 in here now before the iron cools. Toady undoubtedly at some point explored the possibility of rock cages, weapons, trap parts, and so on, and decided ultimately that rock was inappropriate or unsuitable -- probably because it's brittle and can plane away, ruining everything. I could easily tolerate them with some sort of failure rate, if only to balance out their accessibility. The dynamic of an all-rock furniture/weapon pile is pretty significant.. not to mention one that can be dismantled back into its component rock ingredients when no longer required.

And Mechanix.. I don't hate you, honest. I'm just concerned over the legitimacy this all-rock business brings to the table, and I hope I've been fair with my criticism.

And for those unaware, inclusions are:

Craft rocktip arrows (50), Craft rocktip bolts (50), Grind non-economic rocks, Craft rock animal trap, Craft rock anvil, Craft rock axe, Craft rock bucket, Craft rock chain, Craft rock crutch, Craft rock enormous corkscrew, Craft rock giant axe blade, Craft rock maul, Craft rock mechanism, Craft rock mechanism (magma safe), Craft rock menacing spike, Craft rock pick, Craft rock serrated disc, Craft rock spear, Craft rock spiked ball, Craft rock splint, Craft rock traction bench, Craft rock tube section, Craft rock vials, Cut obsidian into gem, Cut large gem into gems.

There are other minor things, too. Like getting sawdust in your flour when you use that wooden quern - run a Google search for 'wooden quern' -- and rock weapons, most notably spears. But as they were present since before 3.25d, I will leave them as an aside..

[Deon]

Yep, I consider removing rock chains and swapping rock buckets with clay buckets.

Rock picks seem a bit weird too so I am for removal of those. Rock anvil though although cheap sounds legit, but I plan to require two metal serrated disks to build the stonecutter's workshop to balance this and other issues out.

and rock weapons, most notably spears

Rocktip spears and axes are well-known through history .

[Deon]

Good job, Mechanixm . I am silently working on a halloween (now post-halloween) update .

Can I get a link on the OP to my mod please kind sir?

And of course, anything you want to take out of my mod and make part of the default Genesis game, please feel free to do so. 

You've got it!

So...I went ahead and posted my own Genesis Mod

Wut? 

[YuriRuler90]

Hey Deon, just picked up your mod a couple of days ago. It works fine on my home computer, but whenever I try to hit load a world (made on my gaming computer) on my office computer it crashes the computer. I'm using the latest version and all.

So, in short,
1. Save world on computer 1. Load in computer 2, it crashes.
2. Save world on computer 1/2, both load fine on computer 1.

[Mechanixm]

Deon, Mech, I obviously love you both for your efforts, but I'm a little worried about Mechanix's additions as they seem to make wood redundant -- rock anvils? Rock chains? Even rock vials? I know dwarves have rock affinity, and this is a fictional game, but to be honest this is suddenly verging sort of close to the precipice of cheap.

Now.. I obviously know your decision to include them would have been considered, but I just wanted to throw my $0.02 in here now before the iron cools. Toady undoubtedly at some point explored the possibility of rock cages, weapons, trap parts, and so on, and decided ultimately that rock was inappropriate or unsuitable -- probably because it's brittle and can plane away, ruining everything. I could easily tolerate them with some sort of failure rate, if only to balance out their accessibility. The dynamic of an all-rock furniture/weapon pile is pretty significant.. not to mention one that can be dismantled back into its component rock ingredients when no longer required.

And Mechanix.. I don't hate you, honest. I'm just concerned over the legitimacy this all-rock business brings to the table, and I hope I've been fair with my criticism.

And for those unaware, inclusions are:

Craft rocktip arrows (50), Craft rocktip bolts (50), Grind non-economic rocks, Craft rock animal trap, Craft rock anvil, Craft rock axe, Craft rock bucket, Craft rock chain, Craft rock crutch, Craft rock enormous corkscrew, Craft rock giant axe blade, Craft rock maul, Craft rock mechanism, Craft rock mechanism (magma safe), Craft rock menacing spike, Craft rock pick, Craft rock serrated disc, Craft rock spear, Craft rock spiked ball, Craft rock splint, Craft rock traction bench, Craft rock tube section, Craft rock vials, Cut obsidian into gem, Cut large gem into gems.

There are other minor things, too. Like getting sawdust in your flour when you use that wooden quern - run a Google search for 'wooden quern' -- and rock weapons, most notably spears. But as they were present since before 3.25d, I will leave them as an aside..

Reprah, I hear ya, and you're being quite fair.  I put a lot of thought in to all these changes and it all boiled down to this:  How do I want to play the game?

For me, the fun part is building.  I don't want to have to deal with the resource scarcity of certain things, namely wood, in order to build simple things.  Dwarves are the foremost stoneworkers in the known world.  It seems silly that anything is out of their reach in regards to making things from stone.  To me, the only thing wood is good for is burning, which is the direction my mod takes    I understand what my mod does and how it changes the DF metagame, but that's how I like to play.

But all that aside, I eventually want to be able to make everything out of every material, within reason.   That, within reason part, I'm still working on.  Does it matter if you can make something out of a certain material, but no one ever uses it?  Probably not, and that is where more testing and feedback like this come in (which is always appreciated).  The game and mods are constantly changing and being updated, nothing is set in stone. (heyoooo!)

That being said, stone anvils and chains are probably going to get axed in my next release.  I originally had stone anvils in there because I forgot to bring an anvil once and didn't want to have to deal with that again (this was before I decided to release my first mod).    The chains don't really make sense because of all the moving parts...  But then again, a stone bridge and mechanism can be made of stone and routinely are, and they move...and there's lots of other things made out of stone that move... I don't know.  It needs to be tested more.  Seriously though, how many chains are you making out of stone to where it breaks the game balance?  Normally you just make them from the crappiest metal you have laying around and it impacts the game not at all.

I'm pretty ok with everything else, including cages and picks.  If you can make picks out of copper, which is softer than the rocks it will be used to  mine out, then you should be able to make picks out of stone.  It may violate standard DF flavor, but it at least makes sense.  Stone worked tools were good enough for the Egyptians, and I hear they built a couple neat things out of stone once or twice.    I AM probably going to change the reaction though to require magma safe blocks, just to make them a little harder to make.

For buckets...if you can make pots in the original game, then why not buckets?  They're just smaller pots...  Maybe this could be balanced by having to include a cloth rope for a handle?  One boulder plus one cloth rope= two buckets?  I'd be ok with that.  Again, more feedback and testing is needed.

I'm not happy with rocktip arrows or bolts at the moment either, and I'm currently testing different ways to go about tackling that particular problem.  Namely how weak they are...

As for rock weapons, I'm probably going to remove them from the Stonecutter in favor of making them craftable from Obsidian at the Craftdwarfs shop.  One would think that blunt weapons would be great when made of stone, but oddly enough that's not the case...  The sharp ones do ok though.

I'm fairly certain Toady included resource scarcity and management as part of the original game for the sake of balance, and I know I'm throwing that right out the window.  Eventually the hordes are going to break through the defenses and kill everyone anyway, so in the end it's not going to matter. 

Happy building.

[Mechanixm]

So...I went ahead and posted my own Genesis Mod

Wut? 

That SHOULD say my own mod FOR Genesis, or my own Genesis Mod-Mod. 

Thanks for the link on the OP, by the way!

[Mechanixm]

Deon it appears population cap is bugged in 3.25d because migrants never stop coming. Its getting to be ridiculous

I can vouch this isn't the case, at least in my game.  I'm sitting on a population of 121 dorks and I'm dying for some migrant waves. Pop cap is set at 200.

Too many legendary's...no one is hauling anything. 

you mean dorfs?
not that there's much difference...

Oh I definitely meant dorks. 

[Tirion]

Some Illithids are fliers, and aren't even bothered by the buggy pathfinding, right? Because the other option is that I'm hallucinating...

Also, nice syndromes coming from them. I've got a herd of rotten War Pigs now, all from one or two stragglers who flied in my airspace, ate some bolts, and fell down inside my fort walls

[Deon]

The air pathfinding is fine as long as there's a ground path from A to B too. And yeah, some curses are too deadly; the new curses system in the next release will make the illithids more interesting (I actually plan to rework them a lot: combine them with a demonic civ into a unique civ I plan).

[Morwaul]

@Mechanism

I like what you are doing with your Mod Mod.  Yes, I think Reprah is correct in that your modifications will make the game less challenging from a resource gathering/management perspective.  I also agree that some of the items don't really make since.  I want to remind you and Reprah that this is DF however and many things do not make since.  Realism does not play a big roll in the game at this point.  For instance, a cloth rope = a cloth chain and seems just as good as a red steel chain to me.  I can cut down trees with a wooden axe.  A wooden bin can hold things that would likely destroy it such as stone blocks, and there is beer and food everywhere but not a single fracken toilet.  On the other hand people have been making stone vials and buckets since...well, the stone age (ok, I know it was later, but it just sounded good.)  The thing about stone is that it is kinda like wood.  Every stone has different properties and although most would probably be to brittle to make an effective cage so would many woods.  Some stones would probably work just as good or even better than wood.

Besides, think of Moria.  The dwarves in that hold died from digging too deep, not from clearing to many forests.

I am looking forward to trying your Mod Mod but I am waiting on Deon's and then hopefully your graphical 3.25j release before starting a new fort.

@Deon

Did your new Illithids get Tomi?  I haven't seen him in a long while.

[Thuellai]

That's the thing.  All of them are green and should be allowed for construction.  I'll try toggling it, but it doesn't look like they ARE economic stones right now.

Is all of your stone outside of a burrow, by chance?  Make sure you don't have your Civ Alert on as well...

No burrows active, so it can't be outside a burrow.  Haven't touched Civ Alert.  Economic stone screen still shows all green, and I can tell because several other stones [mostly ores] are red.  Dwarves won't stockpile or build constructions out of it.  It doesn't seem to exist for them.