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[Jeoshua]

Anything that gives more cooking ingredients, and ways to logically use the stuff we have already, is a good thing 

If it were [EDIBLE_COOKED], it would end up in dishes (Minced Wax, anyone?).  Isn't there supposed to be a tag where it can only be an "improvement" to a meal? Actually most candy has wax in it, to begin with (Caranuba Wax or stuff like that, so it can come from plants or bees).

[Deon]

To be minced it should be EDIBLE_COOKED. EDIBLE_RAW foods are eaten without any ingredients .

[SirAaronIII]

Just noticed while playing the succession: you can grind clay for goodies. Is that supposed to happen?

[Deon]

Not really, the clay boulders are quite a new mechanic, thanks for noting, I will add another check for the stone .

[Renzuko]

Wax IS edible, tho, so you know.  Ever had Wax-Lip Candy before? And Honeycomb is edible raw.  Good for ya, too.

motherf*ckin wax lips were disgusting! hated that candy...and those little brown squares with the skulls on the wrapper...i cant remember the name right now, but they were SUPER hard and gross...

and on topic...

all the other forms of hats, the spiked, and coif thing...is there an armor difference to the spiky helmets? and can a coif be worn with a cap helmet and hood?

[TomiTapio]

Test-embarks re: my new minerals...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Earthenchained, Bernicat.
3x3 region23, newminerals test, createnow (2 picks 1 axe 4dogs)
temp ocean temp shrubland untamed. saltwater.

dig first two shafts: bauxite, rock crystal.
dig some in chalk on -5.
caves1 on -10 to -12. make home there, in schist, away from soon-raptors.
hematite, tetra, riches on -11.
get home things going, furniture etc.
oh dear, no water in caves1, nor on surface.
Dig deeper. Find slate and migmatite! phyllite, gneiss, diorite. marble, granite, feldspar, gabbro... how deep IS this area? gone to -80 already. Time for another downshaft. -92, no caves2...

woodcutting isn't working...
hit two ghouls. a mystery cavegrass fire, wtf! Some Dorfs bleed out. CRASH! and abandon.

-----------------------------------------

Hammerfliers, Nilgigin.
3x3 region24, newminerals test, mysettings
sand desert calm SMs DM, temp grassland sinister DMs. six hostile civs..
9 dogs 6 rabbits 3 axes 3 picks

sandstone, hematite, limonite, jet. slate
found caves1 on -10 to -12. slate/quartzite walls.
other shaft: black bog, loam, sandyclay, clayloam, limetone/jet, quartzite,
dig and fill reservoir with pond.
caves2 on -19 to -22. diorite/olivine, microcline/migmatite/granite
plan for home in migmatite.
found another downward passage.

huh, skeletal draltha bothers silk-weaver. weaver died.
four zombie bloated beholders.
killed two s-dralthas. It's good to have dogs.

[Deon]

Wax IS edible, tho, so you know.  Ever had Wax-Lip Candy before? And Honeycomb is edible raw.  Good for ya, too.

motherf*ckin wax lips were disgusting! hated that candy...and those little brown squares with the skulls on the wrapper...i cant remember the name right now, but they were SUPER hard and gross...

and on topic...

all the other forms of hats, the spiked, and coif thing...is there an armor difference to the spiky helmets? and can a coif be worn with a cap helmet and hood?

There are no real armor difference between helmets. I could make some of them to cover less area though, but it would be really deadly to dwarves .

And you can wear coifs under helmets.

[Jeoshua]

There are no real armor difference between helmets. I could make some of them to cover less area though, but it would be really deadly to dwarves .

Really there should be a difference, if you think about it.  A cap does not cover as much as a helm, and the helm not as much as a closed faced helmet.  If it's just juggling a few numbers, what's the harm.  The key would be to lower some, increase others, and leave the average score the same.

[Deon]

The caps are always 50%, it means 1 in 2 hits goes right pass it.

The problem is that all helmets always were 100%. Now if you make some less than that, it will mean that they will not be used (and randomly turkeys will kill your adamantine-clad warriors).

Also it will make danger rooms impossible to make.

All in all, it will decrease the usefulness of some helms (read - remove from the game; everyone wants to be able to protect their heads) without adding anything.


So it was my reasoning for not doing anything about that.


P.S. However it may be FUN to see your adamantine-clad champion catching a single stray wooden bolt in his eye and dying, so I may consider it . Also it will make spiders much deadlier. Right now they paralyze you and try to bite you in the head, so a single good helm makes you immune to them. If I make it so helmets have some holes, everyone will be spiders' food .

[Jeoshua]

Well 100% is one thing, but 95% would be a -1 in DnD terms.  And -1 isn't too much at all.  It means they need to "crit" you to hit you.

[Deon]

It would make sense for most helms to have 70-80% and for full helms to have 90-95%. I may go with it.

[RaidSoft]

Well 100% is one thing, but 95% would be a -1 in DnD terms.  And -1 isn't too much at all.  It means they need to "crit" you to hit you.

Well, the difference is that one hit to the head in DF is MUCH more effective then any hit in DnD terms would be.. Wouldn't it need to be balanced so that you don't instantly die from getting hit once in the head?

[TomiTapio]

Isn't COIF flexible and thus lets blunt force through? (looks at raws) well, it lacks shaped so I guess it stacks. Wish Toady would let us give prices/values to items. So chainmail would be slow to make and expensive.

I suppose could have one "masked helm" 100% coverage, more material. And all other helms 70-85%. Especially kettle hat should be crap 60%.

Bleh hood is 100% way too good. Why haven't I read these over earlier??

My proposal: rename one-horned to horned, horned helm into masked helm 100%.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

found via google images "masked helm"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

item_helm_genesis

[OBJECT:ITEM]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_1HORN]
[NAME:horned helm:horned helms]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:85]
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]
[LEATHER]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_SPIKED]
[NAME:spiked helm:spiked helms]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:85]
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]
[LEATHER]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_HORNED]
[NAME:masked helm:masked helms]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:100] --the best.
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]
[LEATHER] --acceptable, leather mask plus helm.

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_NORDIC]
[NAME:nordic helm:nordic helms]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:85]
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]
[LEATHER]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_KETTLE]
[NAME:kettle hat:kettle hats]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:60] --the worst
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_HAUBERK]
[NAME:coif:coifs]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:85] --hole for face
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_HEADBAND]
[NAME:headband:headbands]
[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:30]
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:100]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_WINGED]
[NAME:winged helmet:winged helmets]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:80]
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]
[LEATHER]



Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

item_helm

[OBJECT:ITEM]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM]
[NAME:helm:helms]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:85]
[LAYER_SIZE:30]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]
[LEATHER]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP]
[NAME:cap:caps]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:45]
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:15]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_HOOD]
[NAME:hood:hoods]
[LAYER:COVER]
[COVERAGE:75]
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:100]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_TURBAN]
[NAME:turban:turbans]
[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:50]
[LAYER_SIZE:20]
[LAYER_PERMIT:100]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_MASK]
[NAME:mask:masks]
[LAYER:COVER]
[COVERAGE:50]
[LAYER_SIZE:20]
[LAYER_PERMIT:40]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[HARD]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[SCALED]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_VEIL_HEAD]
[NAME:head veil:head veils]
[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:20] --lousy
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:100]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_VEIL_FACE]
[NAME:face veil:face veils]
[LAYER:UNDER]
[COVERAGE:20] --lousy
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:100]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_SCARF_HEAD]
[NAME:headscarf:headscarves]
[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:35]
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:100]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]



And the motherbearding CLOAK and ROBE now come down from the ultimate superhero gear's 100% down to 70%. For far too long they have been good blunt defense. (you fail to hammer his head, since HE HAS A CLOAK CUSHIONING THE BLOWS) (one may arena-test iron-chainmail dudes vs. three-leather-cloaks dudes)

Well, the difference is that one hit to the head in DF is MUCH more effective then any hit in DnD terms would be.. Wouldn't it need to be balanced so that you don't instantly die from getting hit once in the head?

If the enemy is skilled enough to get a head hit, and target fails to parry/dodge/block, target deserves stab or hammer to the face. Not all head hits are fatal, and hmm guess 90% of brain hits are fatal.
I think I'll be giving my dorfs coif+maskedhelm+hood+cloak+robe - oh that feels like cheating, since cloak and robe are way too good defense AFAIK.


Here's my current raws, incl bonfires(not save-compatible with Deon's releases), creatures, new minerals, helm/cloak/robe tunings.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/Genesis_3.25dTT_Ironhand_Bonfires__newminerals_May06.zip

[userpay]

Wait do any of the helmets currently in the game cover the face? I may have not noticed... Either way I'm also favorable towards making masks for my dwarves anyway.

[TomiTapio]

I think the current helms all cover 100% (but not ears and nose which "stick out" / are external). Mouth being [EMBEDDED][APERTURE] I think it's covered, unless there's a rule apertures can't be armor-protected...

From what I can judge in the raws, masks are exactly the same 50% coverage as "cap". They do not go on the "face", just on the head.
So helm+mask is exactly same as helm+cap. Coif Coif helm hood combo seems better. Also, cloaks and robes extend to cover head too.


Deon, next time you break save compatibility, might want to create [BODY:2EARS_EMBEDDED] bodypart some for cave animals.
And perhaps [BODY:GUTS_SMALLER_NOPRESSURE].