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[Medicine Man]

I just have another question, do all things get enraged when attacked? (you know the "Enraged at all enemies!" status.)

[TomiTapio]

Testing the new weapons with adventurer...

orc adventurer, bronze mace.
first hit, fracture cheetah paw, it faints. Bah.
48 hits total to kill it, but one hit to render it unconscious.....
ambush, you are in dry pond, you can't do anything. (T)ravel only.

giant lion. Self has one broken rib and upper body torn open, Extreme Pain. But it's only one rib and skin torn (bit through bronze lamellar armor).

Two giant lions, in dry pond ambush. 550u is one giant lion corpse.
Need more bleeding! Or much better mace.

A Cougar. one hit, and it has extreme pain in ribs. 42 hits total to kill.

Wah two NOPAIN alligators, big trouble! a fractured skull is nothing to a gator. (and thanks to DF, ten fractured bones in no way slow you down)
one gator shakes adv by leg. nerves-severed leg is not for standing! crawl a few miles with gator chasing. bash it and an eagle to death. crawl to the nearest village and become a Potash Maker.


Start keeper pikeman adv. rose gold pike and bronze mail. wrought leggings and bronze helm. bronze low boots and rose gold gauntlets, nice.
Three jackals splat flying.
dragon raptor. a few hits and tear its heart.
Splat many jackals.
attack camel herd in ruined town. camel breaks adv's spine. Retire in Tame-swelter town.

Start keeper cavalier adv. wrought longsword.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

black bear, no trouble. jackals, splat. more jackals.
two harpies, quick victory.
giant gargoyle, first hit is falls over with footbone frature. its upperleg sails off woooosh!
two harpies. longsword equals victory!
two harpies.
two harpies.
2+3 harpies. The Ashen Marsh, so varied.
6-7 beak dogs!! chop, chop.
4 beak dogs, maybe have run out of harpies. adv's upper legs torn, nerves cut, time to retire... (brass leggings)
4 beak dogs 2 swans.
3 beak dogs.
1 giant gargoyle, lowerbody off, win.
2 harpies.
2 swamp trolls! chop limbs.
3 beak dogs, some warthogs.
6 beak dogs. took heavy damage. crawl it off.
1 giant gargoyle. 28 hits to kill it. Total 61 kills so far.
10 hits to kill swamp troll. long sword rules.

Little testing like this makes me fine-tune my worlds, like gator remove crazygood NOPAIN, and boost mace by A LOT -- if it can't kill soft deer/leopard quickly, what use can it be versus armored goblins?

[3]

I just have another question, do all things get enraged when attacked? (you know the "Enraged at all enemies!" status.)

Technically that should depend on personality, with a high ANGER attribute leading to a better chance of getting enraged. So it'd depend on the implementation.

[Deon]

if it can't kill soft deer/leopard quickly, what use can it be versus armored goblins?

Maces can kill people when you hit them in the head or jam bones through internal organs. Otherwise they are to break their bones and make them either unconscious due to pain or unable to move.

How else do you imagine maces? That's what they are for. It's the exact thing I aimed for during my long tests. Please think about that again before telling me that it's wrong .

P.S. As an example, there was a torture in medieval times. An executioner broke all joints of a victim with a huge hammer. The victim was alive during the whole process, and later he was hanged on metal hooks by his ribcage while still alive. So it's real and working as intended.

P.P.S. Before the plague when there was enough of food in the Europe most of the combats between nobles were fought with blunt weapons like hammers and maces, because it was better to capture your opponent and sell him for a ransom rather than to kill him. Low castes were using slashing/piercing weapons though because there was no reason to spare them.

[TomiTapio]

Since there is no targeted attacks, maces are indeed crap, you hit target's finger = you missed despite your good skills. And 6-8 legged creatures have heavy protection from limb-count.

I was looking for more "ten mace hits to upperbody or lowerbody, with superorc strength, target dies". Because bruising isn't damage at all in DF methinks, except when it accumulates to breaking point.
Really, one Average Citizen, would take how many mace hits to kill a deer, 100?

Anyways I tune my worlds separately from yours :´)
maybe bone-pain down 20% and guts-stomach-kidney-lung pain up.

More adventurer...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

keeper witchhunter, bah it was crossbow, abort.
keeper yeoman, bronze longbow, wrong choice again.

orc spearman. bronze spear, bronze lamellar,
two black bears
19 hits to kill cougar.
18 hits to slay other cougar.
2 eagels.
2 eagles.
2 eagles.
2 eagles. in the Murk of Dips.
2 eagles.
2 eagles.
1 eagle.
3 DRAGON RAPTORS. _90_ hits/twists to kill one of them. 69 hits to finish other.
(maybe... guts and kidney bleeding +30%)
3 DRAGON RAPTORS. flee.
2 eagles.
5-6 jackals.
4 jackals.
1 black bear.
2 eagles.
2 gargoyles. 15+ stabs each.
1 giant gargoyle. 40-60 stabs to kill it.
2 gargoyles.
2 gargoyles. other one fled in the night (and expired) while slicing up the first.
1 dragon raptor.  2 stabs and it faints (bruisebone, tearlung, bruisebone)
1 black bear. it bit adv in leg through armor, "bruising the skin", but actually leg nerves are gone now. victory but perma-crippled.
1 dire wolf in the night. stab its tail, it has extreme pain. win.
1 cougar.
3 wolves.
2 gargoyles. Adv flees after bad wrestling.
6 jackals.
5 sand antlions. Adv dies, rose gold gauntlet and bronze lamellar no help, they totally shatter bones through the armor!

[Z1000000m]

Deon, could you update the first post? The info there is outdated in some places.
There is no crucible steel, only black steel (I assume its just a name change, since it needs the same reagents)
The new red steel is not listed either, same goes for the manual.

Also, why is hematite worth 24 bucks and magnetite is worth the same amount as goethite(18)??

[Deon]

Yep, thank you. You have to remind me about that sometimes because I can be lost with all the changes I do myself .

The manual IS outdated. I will make a metalworking article on wiki soon, and then put it in the manual.

I will revise all metal and ore prices when I'm done with the metalworking manual. It's really hard to balance things while looking in raws only, but when it's in a table you can immediately observe it's much easier to compare prices and values.

Since there is no targeted attacks, maces are indeed crap, you hit target's finger = you missed despite your good skills. And 6-8 legged creatures have heavy protection from limb-count.

That's what relsizes are for. And if my target blocked my strike with its leg then it deserved it .
I think Toady One said something about revisind the targeting system so it's a temporary problem.

P.S. I've just tested and it took 16 blows to debilitate a deer (it fell uncoscious due to pain) and 10 more to kill it (it suffocated because 12th blow pierced its lung with its rib). It was a weak peasant. The deer landed a hit only once, I dodged all other blows.

[Nabobalis]

I can't seem to resize the window, any suggestions?

[Still Standing]

I can't seem to resize the window, any suggestions?

I noticed that when I installed the new version of this mod.  Just go in to the init.ini and change it.

[TomiTapio]

Felt like running one arena test, here is
30 male stone dwarves, no skills, wrought dagger -vs- 30 female stone dwarves, no skills, wrought spear.

Ten spear-females survived.
magically they have dabbling armor user but no armor. best lass got to novice spear and novice fighter.
quite a bit of parrying. (males are 1-30 numbers.)

31 head hits
7 heart artery opened
3x left testicle
3x right testicle
3x in phallus tearing it
4x in left breast tearing it
4x in right breast tearing it
2 F-crotch hits.
3x spear to throat
3x dagger to throat
1x left hand thumb bone shattered by spear
"Dwarf 26 kicks Dwarf 42    in the right eye with his left foot    bruising it!"

Spreadsheet, XLS Excel 97 format
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8967397/Genesis311__30dagg-vs-30spear_analysis.xls

[Nabobalis]

I can't seem to resize the window, any suggestions?

I noticed that when I installed the new version of this mod.  Just go in to the init.ini and change it.

But what setting do I change?

[Deon]

[RESIZABLE:NO] to [RESIZABLE:YES]. I was playing with resolution tests and forgot to change it back.

magically they have dabbling armor user but no armor

Huh, weird. Is it some DF bug in combat sparring or something else? Maybe parrying with weapons increases 'armor user' instead of appropriate weapon skills?

[Still Standing]

Don't clothes count as armour?  At least I have seen in adventure mode weapon strikes glancing off clothes.  Perhaps enough of those will increase your skill in armour use.

[TomiTapio]

Don't clothes count as armour?  At least I have seen in adventure mode weapon strikes glancing off clothes.  Perhaps enough of those will increase your skill in armour use.

The arena combatants were naked. Vanilla elf wooden weapons do get negated by clothes, so a vanilla elf siege is quite a joke.

Right, more happenings in Tailpage: (the horror of the 60 FPS) (and this is Genesis 2.9 or 3.0, old weapons)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Year 4 autumn.
_14_ in hospital! 29 able bodies.
ban most hauling, it is nursing months.
clothier mood: cavecotton fiber thong, 5600 coins, and with image of a general's promotion...
build first querns... 10 in rest. armorer is suturing them.
a giant toad has a gemsetter by the mouth! ewww! and she almost drowns! soldiers to the rescue.
cave bear gets scraps from the dining tables. She's kinda cute.
one moron (skinniest male) fails to rest (times 800), hallucinating about were wrestlers. Who are in the cages.
three ezra are wandering aimlessly on the surface.
only 5 in hospital.

An ocean titan comes, a humanoid tortoise! scaly and shoots webs.
Easy victory. it bleeds, it dies.
six in hospital, many at party next door.
better dump the were-cages in the magma.
dump 8 cages using floor-decontructing. The splash is so big that the fail-to-rest moron dies.
home caravan.

were ambush. orc caravan. 2nd were group.
mad carnage! more weres.
A DUSK ELF SIEGE! The monkey-kissers!!
more weres. grand bowyer died.
elite smith-woodcutter-leader died. armorer died.
leader charges at the duskies and dies.

Järistys megahero and her axe are happy.
15 invaders remain. caravans return to the depot, maybe the duskies aren't gonna hurt them.
31 of us. two tantrums. 9-13 in hospital.

Year 4 winter.
armorer mood: bronze greaves, 43k, with bands of bronze.
Valli the peasant had twin babies. we are 33.
dig some more rooms, for tantrumers and elite alike.
Kone glassmaker had twins!
..
a FB bison comes, with poison gas! (on -12 the homebase level)
steel sword to head, done.
an idiot herbalist/recruit somehow went to the surface and got killed by sieging Duskies.
named Eland died of infection.
a gremlin wrestled a turkey to death.
Elite were ambush on -10's stairwell! Good job, chained cave bear!
2nd were ambush squad in stairs. war jaguar and spaniel help.
Our leader slices a were in half.
3rd were squad.

Year 5 spring.
three moron recruits outdoors getting killed by duskies. Rush to help them.
Luola master survivor died! hero wrestler and two babies dead.
Commander slices some duskies. They leave. Siege over.
Only 26 of us left (2 are babies and 10 hospitalized. 14 able.)
Brewer's mood at forge: iron floodgate, 19k.
(65 fps)
migrants! we are reinforced to 50. (58 fps)
A DUSKIE SIEGE. With spears, swords, axe lord, spearmaster, war tigers, war raptors, war wolves, alligators, giraffes.
..
A FLAYER SIEGE. macemen and one gith maceman.
5 thieves. thanks, guard donkey! flayers let the barghest thief politely pass.
--put walls up so enemy needs to swim in the cavern to get to us. They don't come.
goblin ambush. foolish mechanic died.
(58 fps)
Year 5 summer.
(fps from 50-58 to 59-63 by graphics 35fps->5)
ten in hospital. remove burrow-restriction, walls keep the surface-access closed.
drop ten hostile cages into the magma pipe. mmmm. furnace operator drowned in magma somehow.
safely dig more ada.
drop 12 hostile cages into the magma pipe. and animal caretaker jumped down too... how hard is it to smash up a supporting floor?
grab trees and ores from -31...
Year 5 autumn.
build a long trap corridor, slowly, to invite some hostiles in.
Lanka Hero, miner, mood: tetrahedrite cabinet TepidJailer The Distracting Jail, 42k and historical image in leather.
mid-autumn.
FB scorpion, poison sting. homebase level fight. it has scale and chitin and fat.

[Deon]

Okay, I've just got my hands on a SKIDROW: Elemental, so expect more inspiration and probably new critters soon .