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[Lord_Phoenix]

The main problem I have with it is that it makes the openings from a river into a channel system rather ugly since you can't get down there to remove the ramps created from the last necessary channel diggings after the water is rushing in. 

Also, my pumps don't seem to want to pump from water that's over a ramp.

[Porpoisepower]

If the area below the channel is allready dug out the channeling does leave an open space.

[Asewl]

or you could remove the up ramps on the bottom of the channel and then the channle turns into a normal channel.  And if you think about it if you had to dig a channel that deep by hand (I roughly put it at 14 feet or meters.)  You would have to build a ramp down first and then latter on take away the ramps so it become a true ramp.  We silly humans are just spoiled because we have big bad machines that can easily dig a channle with out having to go in it.  I personally like the change it makes the game more realistic and challanging plus as I remeber invaders could still if given time could cross the channel the only really instant defence use i used the channel for before was to block forset fires.  This should still be possible since fires as far as i know in this version can't pass ramps.

[Randomone]

I really don't see a problem with this. It prevents the whole miner channeling himself on an island problem, and for moats you can just use the (z)remove up stairs/ramps tool, and keep the ramps on your side of the moat for cleaning out the moat. The only problem I see is that 1-tile wide channels for drainage or whatnot are messed up, but it shouldn't be much of a problem concerning you probably have mined out the lower z-level for your plumbing/access system. Don't forget that you can build floors over ramps; I have a ton of plumbing systems in my old 40d fort capped off by block floors.

[Wolfius]

It does, however, make an aesthetic mess when landscaping/breaching existing ponds and rivers.

Otherwise I don't mind it at all.

[Corona688]

If you can't dig channels anymore, why does the option exist at all?  Ditch it and just force us to make ramps everywhere, it's the Real Dwarven Way(tm)(r)(c).  In fact, Real Dwarves(tm) don't make stairs either, do they?  Another way to simplify the game! 

Personally I like ramps for water things, aesthetics be damned, so what if it's "less pretty" it's no longer an inescapable deathtrap.  (unless you want it to be.)  But that's neither here nor there.  If the channel designation can't make channels that's a bug, no ifs nor buts.

[Asewl]

to fix this problem for most toady could make the dig channel command also take away the ramps after words though your dwarf may than be stuck in the channel good way to kill unwanted dwarfs though.

[sethwick]

If you can't dig channels anymore, why does the option exist at all?  Ditch it and just force us to make ramps everywhere, it's the Real Dwarven Way(tm)(r)(c).  In fact, Real Dwarves(tm) don't make stairs either, do they?  Another way to simplify the game! 

Personally I like ramps for water things, aesthetics be damned, so what if it's "less pretty" it's no longer an inescapable deathtrap.  (unless you want it to be.)  But that's neither here nor there.  If the channel designation can't make channels that's a bug, no ifs nor buts.

I don't think you can dig ramps from the z-level above like you can dig channels.

[Keishin]

Here's what makes it stupid.

Code: [Select]

As it would have been in 40d, . is open space:
+++++
+...+
+...+
+...+
+++++

As it is now:
+++++
+▲▲▲+
+▲▲▲+
+▲▲▲+
+++++That shouldn't even be possible! The central ramp should collapse because it is not supported by walls from any direction.

The central ramp does collapse (disappear, rather), just as it would have if you mass-designated a bunch of ramps in the old version.

^^^Quoted for emphasis.

Code: [Select]

Furthermore, to illustrate what the current version would ACTUALLY look like:
+++++
+▼▼▼+
+▼.▼+
+▼▼▼+
+++++

or if that's not clear enough, in the case of a larger pit:
++++++++
+▼▼▼▼▼▼+
+▼....▼+
+▼....▼+
+▼....▼+
+▼▼▼▼▼▼+
++++++++

Or from the side:
¯\______/¯
Which, really, does sorta make sense.

[Interus]

I actually have had an issue when channeling out large areas(I was making a 2-story room underground as a sort of front gate) where every once in awhile some of the ramps wouldn't disappear.  So in the 10X10 square, there were ramps all along the edge(as would be expected) and about 4 ramps scattered around the middle with no adjacent walls for the rocks to ramp up to.

Also, can somebody confirm whether or not ramps go up all adjacent walls?  That might explain why my miners stopped being able to reach the booze.  I had a 1-wide ramp ditch in front of the entrance, that might have only allowed one sided entry exit.  There might be another explanation though.

[Corona688]

I don't think you can dig ramps from the z-level above like you can dig channels.

Yes, you can.

[jryan]

ramp/channel tiles are accessible from any side.  The graphic is just to represent up and down. in the new channel system the channels can be traversed while water is in them.

If you want it to work mostly the old way then dig a tunnel under the area you want to channel... then you will get a two story, non-traversable channel.

[Wolfius]

I actually have had an issue when channeling out large areas(I was making a 2-story room underground as a sort of front gate) where every once in awhile some of the ramps wouldn't disappear.  So in the 10X10 square, there were ramps all along the edge(as would be expected) and about 4 ramps scattered around the middle with no adjacent walls for the rocks to ramp up to.

That's nothing new. Natural/carved ramps only collapse when you remove adjacent walls, so if you channel away that last tile, and it's been isolated, you get a free-standing tile.

Bane of my landscaping efforts for a while now - atleast we can designate Remove Ramps now(please tell me that's new - if it's not and I simply somehow managed to overlook it until now, I'm going to tantrum).

Also, can somebody confirm whether or not ramps go up all adjacent walls?  That might explain why my miners stopped being able to reach the booze.  I had a 1-wide ramp ditch in front of the entrance, that might have only allowed one sided entry exit.  There might be another explanation though.

Likewise, I've occasionally had issue with ramps not working right. Nothing new. I just used stairs instead.

[Zakastra]

I actually have had an issue when channeling out large areas(I was making a 2-story room underground as a sort of front gate) where every once in awhile some of the ramps wouldn't disappear.  So in the 10X10 square, there were ramps all along the edge(as would be expected) and about 4 ramps scattered around the middle with no adjacent walls for the rocks to ramp up to.

That's nothing new. Natural/carved ramps only collapse when you remove adjacent walls, so if you channel away that last tile, and it's been isolated, you get a free-standing tile.

Bane of my landscaping efforts for a while now - atleast we can designate Remove Ramps now(please tell me that's new - if it's not and I simply somehow managed to overlook it until now, I'm going to tantrum).

Also, can somebody confirm whether or not ramps go up all adjacent walls?  That might explain why my miners stopped being able to reach the booze.  I had a 1-wide ramp ditch in front of the entrance, that might have only allowed one sided entry exit.  There might be another explanation though.

Likewise, I've occasionally had issue with ramps not working right. Nothing new. I just used stairs instead.

Wolfus Cancles : Post Topic, Tantruming

[Caretaker Eric]

I don't know if this is still relevant, but I made a well earlier by channeling down ten or so levels to an open space that descended a few levels before actually getting to the top of 7/7 water underground. What I told my miner to dig basically looked like this, where # is a wall tile to be mined out, _ is a channel to be dug, O is open space, and W is water, from the side:

Code: [Select]

############_
            _
            _
            _
            _
            _
            _
            _
            O
            O
            O
            WSo my miner goes and happily mines out the walls as normal, gets to the channel, and yes, digs a ramp. He digs a ramp down the next level too, and down the next, and so on. I thought, "Curious," and left to go do something else. When I came back, Urist had smashed into the water below, blood splashing everywhere, and eventually drowned. On the plus side, all of the ramps had disappeared and in their place was the traditional open space expected from a channel. So instead of V I had _, if you know what I mean, *nudgenudgewinkwink.*

So the whole process does indeed make channels, and it just looks like the ramps are there for an extremely temporary conven- Or on second thought once Urist broke through the bottom layer to the open space eight levels of ramps may very well have fallen and smashed into his broken body and pinning him under seven levels of water until he drowned.

I'm not sure, all I know is I have nice channels for my well instead of silly ramps, and that I didn't need to dig access tunnels for the channels. All for the price of my only other pick and a novice miner.

Carry on.