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[Aqizzar]

Cuba's AIDS rate is one sixth of the U.S.... How would that even work?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of AIDS having a hard time migrating into a blockaded island, the free medical access means more people get tested, and I'm willing to bet that having AIDS carries considerably more ostracism there than in America, just for (lack of) political correctness.

[ein]

Honestly, I don't think Hitler was all that bad.
His art I mean.

Imagine what would've happened if he had been accepted into art school.

[Cheddarius]

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of AIDS having a hard time migrating into a blockaded island, the free medical access means more people get tested, and I'm willing to bet that having AIDS carries considerably more ostracism there than in America, just for (lack of) political correctness.

Sorry, I phrased that weirdly. I meant that junk food causes low life expectancy, and that I would have no idea how junk food would cause AIDS.

[Schilcote]

The main problem with socialized healthcare is that it costs too much. We're already many trillions of dollars in debt.

The other thing is that, while everyone has gov. healthcare, it's usually not as good as capitalist health care (which you could really say about anything, everyone gets government stuff, but capitalist stuff is better). It dosn't make it so that you don't have to pay money to get health care, it makes it so that you can't pay large sums of money to get healthcare. Since free healthcare is free, it automatically makes it impossible to have a health care business; people will simply choose the public option and you never get paid. So you have to get on the waiting list with every other person in the country.

The system we have now works, for the most part. We have the best medical technology in the world, and the reason is capitalism. Taking away capitalist healthcare takes away capitalist money and capitalist effort. As for the Cuban healthcare system, here's Wikipedia:

Challenges include low pay of doctors (only 15 dollars a month[123]), poor facilities, poor provision of equipment, and frequent absence of essential drugs.[124] Nevertheless, Cuba has the highest doctor-to-population ratio in the world and has sent thousands of doctors to more than 40 countries around the world.[125]

The fact that they do have a lot of doctors is nice, but they just don't have the money to make things go. If you want to see what capitalist healthcare can do, go up to the Pittsburg Children's Medical Center. It's an enormous building, filled with an army of trained medical professionals and incredibly advanced machines. I needed dialysis once because my kidneys failed, in Cuba I'd probably just get on a waiting list and die within 24 hours (which is the amount of time the sort of toxin I had in my system takes to cause death by renal failure). In America I get on a helicopter, get morphine and general anesthetic, get a pipe stabbed into my heart, and get hooked up to a dialysis machine. I get to stay in a mechanical bed that can conform to any position I want it to (and got the best sleep I had ever gotten in my entire life), more morphine, pretty damn good hamburgers, and free Wi-Fi for a week, then get to go home to receive my "Holy sh**, you got 100% on the entire school year" award.

[Aqizzar]

In America I get on a helicopter, get morphine and general anesthetic, get a pipe stabbed into my heart, and get hooked up to a dialysis machine. I get to stay in a mechanical bed that can conform to any position I want it to (and got the best sleep I had ever gotten in my entire life), more morphine, pretty damn good hamburgers, and free Wi-Fi for a week, then get to go home to receive my "Holy sh**, you got 100% on the entire school year" award.

And rack up a $250,000 bill in the process.  There's a middle ground somewhere.

[Cheddarius]

Hrm. I guess I exacerbated the situation, but I'd rather not this turn into a thread on health care itself, rather this quote in particular. So, if anyone wants to make a rebuttal, could you quote that post and make a new thread instead?

[kuro_suna]

.....

Except Cuba isn't the only country in the world with socialized medicine.

[Dwarf]

The main problem with socialized healthcare is that it costs too much. We're already many trillions of dollars in debt.

The other thing is that, while everyone has gov. healthcare, it's usually not as good as capitalist health care (which you could really say about anything, everyone gets government stuff, but capitalist stuff is better). It dosn't make it so that you don't have to pay money to get health care, it makes it so that you can't pay large sums of money to get healthcare. Since free healthcare is free, it automatically makes it impossible to have a health care business; people will simply choose the public option and you never get paid. So you have to get on the waiting list with every other person in the country.

The system we have now works, for the most part. We have the best medical technology in the world, and the reason is capitalism. Taking away capitalist healthcare takes away capitalist money and capitalist effort. As for the Cuban healthcare system, here's Wikipedia:

Challenges include low pay of doctors (only 15 dollars a month[123]), poor facilities, poor provision of equipment, and frequent absence of essential drugs.[124] Nevertheless, Cuba has the highest doctor-to-population ratio in the world and has sent thousands of doctors to more than 40 countries around the world.[125]

The fact that they do have a lot of doctors is nice, but they just don't have the money to make things go. If you want to see what capitalist healthcare can do, go up to the Pittsburg Children's Medical Center. It's an enormous building, filled with an army of trained medical professionals and incredibly advanced machines. I needed dialysis once because my kidneys failed, in Cuba I'd probably just get on a waiting list and die within 24 hours (which is the amount of time the sort of toxin I had in my system takes to cause death by renal failure). In America I get on a helicopter, get morphine and general anesthetic, get a pipe stabbed into my heart, and get hooked up to a dialysis machine. I get to stay in a mechanical bed that can conform to any position I want it to (and got the best sleep I had ever gotten in my entire life), more morphine, pretty damn good hamburgers, and free Wi-Fi for a week, then get to go home to receive my "Holy sh**, you got 100% on the entire school year" award.

The secret is called taxes, but many people are allergic to them ('RAWR my MONEEH!' syndrome)


Also, the quote in question is probably said because:

a) The person in question is really stupid
or
b) It is actually counted as an argument by some people (Therefore, the people are stupid)

Maybe a mixture of the two.

[Aqizzar]

Hrm. I guess I exacerbated the situation, but I'd rather not this turn into a thread on health care itself, rather this quote in particular. So, if anyone wants to make a rebuttal, could you quote that post and make a new thread instead?

Sorry about that.  Everyone, this thread is about how ridiculous it is for a noted politician, Sarah Palin in particular, to literally go Godwin in a public speech.  Let's stay focused here.

[Cheddarius]

You can go to this thread if you want to talk about it. I quoted all the relevant posts and everything. I will now abandon that thread forever.

[Zironic]

There have been numerous comparisons to Hitler (not just MENTIONS of Hitler) made by Fox News types. A significant percentage of Republicans (as quoted on Fresh Air on NPR) believe Obama is doing "a lot of the same things Hitler did." A somewhat smaller, but still extremely huge compared to how small it would have to be to not be terrifying, percentage believe he is the Antichrist.

I realize that this sort of this is a grand old American tradition dating back from the days when politicians who disagreed used to shoot each other in duels, but still. The day when people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin are not only taken seriously but are seen as the ideological leaders of an important third-party-ish movement is the day that one more breathing tube is removed from the fragile, anemic body of the republic.

It's too bad tea parties are equivalent to the bar meetings that hitler held.

[Neonivek]

I think there is a term for this

"Hitler Wore Pants"

[Cheddarius]

O-Obama wears pants!
OH GOD
MY ENTIRE LIFE IS A LIE

[Forumsdwarf]

terrifying

Wake me up when it gets half as bad as this:
http://www.zombietime.com/world_cant_wait_sf_11-2-2005/

There were so many "9/11 Truthers" running around Obama wound up appointing one to his cabinet -- then as quickly getting rid of him after his crazy conspiracy theories came to light.

By the way, doesn't Cuba have the best healthcare system in the world or something?

No, they have pretty decent healthcare by Third World standards.  They do not and have never had better healthcare than the United States.
What they do have is in part owing to the United States giving Cuba millions in medical aid, both direct foreign aid and private donations.

Cuba's AIDS rate is one sixth of the U.S.

I'm willing to bet that having AIDS carries considerably more ostracism

There was actually a time when Cuba had mandatory tests for HIV and forcibly quarantined anyone who tested positive.

The main problem with socialized healthcare is that it costs too much. We're already many trillions of dollars in debt.

Shh!  This is a historic moment ... don't harsh the vibe, man! 

You also mentioned the low pay of Cuban doctors.  That's another "health care reform" only a totalitarian country could support.  Cuba can afford to pay doctors less than taxi drivers only so long as leaving Cuba is illegal.

The secret is called taxes

Why not balance the budget first, using what you already have, then only after demonstrating that elementary level of competence raising taxes and creating an expensive new entitlement program?
The secret is called "incompetence".  It's what politicans are when they blow a bunch of money on the political equivalent of hookers and coke then after the stimulus binge return to Washington to enact expensive new entitlements.
And after seeing the way politicians borrow and spend our grandkids' money why should they get more of it?  Do you really believe there is some tipping point where the politicians will collect so much tax money they will suddenly become competent in spending it?
I'm not necessarily against tax increases, but prove to me you can live within your means first.  Balance the budget for a couple of years then sell me your fancy new entitlement program, and when you say, "These taxes are how we will pay for it and this is our plan for controlling future cost increases," I will be more disposed to believing.

[Luke_Prowler]

Ok, just a little trivia: for those worried about the "Trillion dollars in debt", National debt doesn't work the same way as personal debt.