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[Solifuge]

Mentioned an idea in another thread earlier today about having one player build a dwarven fortress that included traps and puzzles to protect an artifact, then give the save to kobold adventurers who'd try to steal it.

Gentlemen, I believe I have an idea for the next DF Masters Competition.

[Bronze Dog]

Wow. Looks like I might get more than idle chatter out of the idea. I doubt I'd be competing, but I'd probably download the trap forts to see what sort of crazy puzzles skilled DFer's can make. And by 'see' I probably mean get my cutebold adventurers killed in gruesome fashion over and over.

[Lagotrope]

Ver 31.13 is now up. (ignore that it says for version 31.12, it seems dffd hasn't put up 31.13 as an option yet)

This uses the SDL - if you want a legacy version and have no idea how to switch over manually, I'll put up a legacy version on request. Also I realized that in recent versions I forgot to pass over haggle's txt file, so in case you like his graphics the txt file is back in the base folder.

I enjoy this idea of traversing trap ridden fortresses. However, quoting the init file in regards to the option to disable traps in adv mode:

"This is not recommended -- there are lockup issues with cage traps, and you cannot disarm any of the traps yet, so they effectively stops you from exploring your old fortresses."

It probably goes without saying even without that init note, but the fortress creator should avoid using cage traps at all, but also to use some restraint in creating traps all around. Such as limit the amount of total traps you can lay, and limit the weapons per trap to 1-2 or so. Then again come to think, this has probably already been discussed in length in that other thread.

That being said, I have felt like doing some kobold adventuring, and would love to try this sort of thing.

[Bronze Dog]

I suppose the traps would have to be of a less direct sort: Pull the wrong combination of levers when attempting to open the vault and lava flows in/rocks fall, everyone dies, for example.

Or change the challenge into building nonlethal puzzles.

[Solifuge]

Chest full of mined Ice "rocks". Carry one to a chamber, with a pressure plate triggered by 1/7 water, sitting directly on top of a magma-filled floor. Ice melts, water triggers, door opens. Voila.

Yeah, there's a number of options, so long as pressure plates work. I'm thinking of calling the challenge "Indiana Jreengus and the Lost City". Still got to work out the rules and such.

[Bronze Dog]

Of course, if you're interested in building, you don't have to wait for the contest to start.

I'd like to see what you can come up with.

Alternative idea on traps: They're only put in places where there's some form of warning a smart player should be able to spot. The dwarves who live there have to have some way to recognize where they are, in case they forget. A thief would be wise to notice something like out-of-place materials, slight asymmetries, etcetera.

---

On another note, I'm thinking about making my own little tweaks on Kobold Camp. Might even go as far as making a full language RAW if I can maintain some of the [UTTERANCES] 'feel' to it. Kind of developing my own ideas about them, like favoring hanging rings as decoration on items (they rattle!) or liking geometric shapes in engravings as "magic" patterns to bless the item or location (superstition!).

Also thinking of modding in an adventurer reaction or two for making trophies out of my defeated enemies, so my swordbolds can go around wearing necklaces made of wolf fangs or something.

[Lagotrope]

I'd love to build a fort made for these sorts of traps, unfortunately I don't have as much free time these days. The more I think about it, the more I think it could work out to be awesome

And by all means bronze, tweak as much as you like, the original kobold camp thread gave me the impression everyone had their own vision of what kobolds could and couldn't do. Able to mine stone or not, able to do masonry jobs, or even smelt. Even in 40d before I posted anything, I'd continually tweak them, sometimes so far as to the point that it was practically dwarf fortress just with kobolds. My attachment to kobolds is likely because, oddy enough, I was introduced to kobold camp before I was dwarf fortress.

The rendition I've posted here is primarily based on what Gobbo had designed, or what I think he would've designed it like, for the most part- the exception I feel is that kobolds can work with stone; the difficulty lies with GETTING the stone (as displayed with the 31.xx ability to make most stone unmineable.) Which reminds me about how I had to put in some jobs I didn't want in, since if one skill was disabled then that entire family of skills was disabled- I need to check to see if that's been fixed up, and will do some tweaking if so.

My point being, before I went on a tangent about my thoughts on why I made kobold camp the way I did, is that it was not made as a "this is how kobolds should be played and this is how they are" but "this is how they can be played, but it can be easily modded to however you would like to play." That being said,  if you manage to make a full language that still maintains that feel of Jribus and Cheelbus and Jrifikibi, I may very well insert that with your permission.

[Bronze Dog]

Yeah, I'm not surprised you're cool with personalization. I'm going to be studying up on how to mod equipment to expand a little, like making an atlatl for firing javelins.

I'll be glad to share whatever I might come up with.

[Xenos]

What I dont get is how kobolds cannot mine stone, but you can import it from the other kobolds...

I would love being able to mine stone but maybe limit the types of stone mineable?  (i.e. allow me to mine ores and stones which would be easier to mine (sedimentary stones) but not as many metamorphic or igneous.  But, I am too lazy to tweak the RAWS :p

[Bronze Dog]

Obviously, the homeland is a nexus of kobold thieves who steal large amounts of it.
That, and lots and lots of socks. Including the ones they steal from your (the player's) dryer.

I'd definitely like it if there was some way to limit what you can dig through based on the material of the pick/shovel you're using.

[Lagotrope]

My knowledge of geology is lacking, I really wouldn't mind making the softer stones mineable- I just don't know which stones are "soft" and which would be unmineable. So far chert and I think shale are mineable, as well as precious metals (copper/silver/gold/platinum) more for flavor than realism. But if you say sedimentary stones are as a whole easier to mine then I may open those up, still keeping the others unmineable.

As soon as I realize if or how it's possible to mine stuff based on the material of the shovel used, however, I'll definitely jump on that. The biggest thing I'd like the kobolds to be about is not that it's flat out impossible to do certain things, just that it requires immense amounts of more work and danger than what dwarves have to do for the same result.

[The Doctor]

So like, you COULD set up a permanent outpost in HELL, but it'd take 300 Kobolds, all armed with bronze shields and swords, with flowing red capes? Instead of the normal 70 Dwarfs in full Adamantine plate.

[Lagotrope]

So like, you COULD set up a permanent outpost in HELL, but it'd take 300 Kobolds, all armed with bronze shields and swords, with flowing red capes? Instead of the normal 70 Dwarfs in full Adamantine plate.

Indeed if it were possible, I'd mod it that way. It would be a vast amount of searching and work you'd have to do in order to get the shovels required to dig your way to hell. And chances are the kobolds are such slow learners that the best weaponsmith in the camp feels pride at his greatest accomplishment, the superior quality bronze short sword. And all your military would need to spend years specializing on a weapon and shield training to get good enough to hold a candle to hellspawn. Your entire fortress would have to have 100% focus on this permanent outpost. And after all is said and done, you'll probably still fail.

But the point? It was possible, and if you would succeed, it would be the greatest thing to happen for kobolds in the history of ever.

I've half a mind though to make those red flowing capes in game though.

[The Doctor]

New Canon: Kobolds are Spartans GOGOGOGO

[Solifuge]

I've got a Neolithic/Simple Technology mod sitting on the backburner, that might mesh really well with Kobold Camp. I did research into early mining (it was done with antlers and horns), early smithing (native metals, cold-worked on a flat stone anvil), and industries that duplicate the utility of Masonry such as Clay, Mudbrick, Ceramics, and Bone-Ash Porcelain. I also know a good bit about Geology. The mod was intended to allow Dwarves to build tech all the way up from nothing, even if you were embarking with no resources whatsoever... but it would work well for Kobold Camp style tech too.

I've done all the homework on knapped stone tools, mining technologies, and what reactions were actually used to make different kinds of ceramics of different values and uses... but designing the mods themselves has never been one of my strong suits. If there was a modder who knew their way around the raws, I could definitely supply the research into primitive technology and industrial practices.