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Author Topic: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )  (Read 59554 times)

Pathos

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2010, 02:52:37 pm »

Has anyone edited the graphics_whatever.txt file yet for any of those graphics sets?

What is in there right now is not all that helpful.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I suspect most people are avoiding graphics sets due to how completely screwed they are.
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sunshaker

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2010, 03:01:33 pm »

I posted this in another thread and it was suggested that I post it here, so here you go.

Quote
I have a metal/mineral suggestion and it in part answers the question "where do the kobolds get copper if they can't mine/smelt/etc?" Nuggets of copper, silver and gold, these would be effectively pure metals that do not need processing to be used. It would work as a simple reaction that doesn't need fuel or other refining/processing methods to convert, the mineral would not have a metal_ore token, but would use a straight 1 stone = 1 bar custom reaction, value of the stone and the bar should be equal.

For more information see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_metal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Copper_Complex
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sunshaker

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2010, 03:09:49 pm »

Wonder if we can convince anyone to added in the FLINT clusters to chalk,  since FLINT is better for stone tools than chert itself, there's also a lower-grade FLINT called common chert.... though I guess if you follow the "No stone breaking rule" (which I do for the most part, less likely to break it now that you can do custom workshops) adding a CLUSTER stone is pointless, since I don't know how to set civs to trade boulders.

This is not technically correct. In petrology the term "chert" is used to refer generally to all rocks composed primarily of microcrystalline, cryptocrystalline and microfibrous quartz (meaning there is little or no distinction between "common chert" (aka chert), "chalcedony" (aka agate, aventurine, carnelian, chrysophrase, heliotrope (bloodstone), jasper, moss agate, mtorolite, onyx, sard, sardonyx, etc) and "flint"). The differences in "Chert" are caused by mineral impurities (which causes different colors and patterns), the more impurities there are in the "chert" the less useful it is for knapping (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzNIa-U5Nc), stones that are difficult to knap can sometimes be fire treated to improve knapability (basically you bake them in a camp fire). The list of knapable stones is rather long (pretty much anything with a conchoidal fracture pattern).
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Bloogonis

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2010, 03:22:54 pm »

I will start testing and helping with this. Have you thought about the use of traps? It would probably lead to another community rule to not have people build drawbridges and such, but traps are no longer as effective as they were in the old version so I think it should have a look.

Fakeedit: bah Dffd went down, so I guess it will be a little bit till I can do any real testing :'(
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Binamrad

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2010, 03:40:55 pm »

There is a way to make stone unmineable in this version.

As discovered in this thread: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53146.0 , if you change IMPACT_FRACTURE of STONE_TEMPLATE in material_template_default to 5000000 all rock (and soil, apparently) will become unmineable. I have no idea how this will affect weapons made of stone, though.
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Gobbo

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2010, 03:51:51 pm »

As the creator of the original Kobold Camp, I commend you for taking up the mantle, and have some suggestions and additions to recommend:

1. Now that butchery and the like is so vastly expanded on, kobolds will probably rely on animals a lot more. I don't know if milking is indeed bugged like I heard it was but animals that can be milked, sheared, and butchered are probably prolific in kobold civilizations, a true staple of society. Making (or simply appropriating) some kind of shaggy beast that can simply be sheared or 'milked' (whatever the raws allow) for fur would be a good start, especially if that fur can then be used for bedding, light armor, clothing, etc.
1b. Further, kobolds should have the ability to tame all sorts of weird beasts without a noble (or perhaps should just get the Dungeon Master equivalent very early on). Just as they should be able to raise and milk weird beasts dwarves would never be seen with, they should also have the ability to train, tame, and even bring to embark a number of stranger creatures. Vicious beasts are going to be insanely important to keeping your camp alive, and just catching them in the first place will require your 'bolds to risk life and limb. Which brings me to...
2. Traps! Now that you can change reactions on any workshop, you can make wooden mechanisms (or perhaps limit them, since they'll be valuable, by requiring them to be made of bone or something, or multiple items all added together). That means that 'bolds can finally have access to traps, something fantasy kobolds almost always do, without needing to also have the ability to strip-mine. Even if the traps are limited to just primitive pit, cage, and spike traps, it would be a huge improvement.
3. Along those same lines, perhaps a larger focus on agrarian culture.
4. Variable weapons. Now that you can assign any weapon type, kobolds will probably go more for daggers, slings, blowpipes, and regular bows than battle axes and crossbows. I see you're already working on this though.
5. I know it's against popular demand, but please, assuming it works the same as before, leave in [item_thief]. Its biggest effect is counting exported goods as 'stolen'. This has the added effect of keeping your fortress's export wealth very low while still allowing trade, meaning you won't get waves of dozens upon dozens of migrants. Keeping a relatively low population and relying on breeding was a staple of the original mod's balance. Being flooded with kobolds makes it too easy, even as weak as they are.
6. Now that actual worthwhile caves are in, kobolds should be allowed to settle in them (with the obvious downside that they're usually infested with monsters). Though without smelting most of the ore will be useless, perhaps it would be beneficial to look into something to do with all those gems. After all, kobolds like shiny stuff!
7. Wooden weapons. Non-training weapons (especially spears and clubs) should be craftable from wood, now that it's a viable option. They won't be very good but sharp stone is fairly hard to come by.
8. You have custom workshops now, that can make virtually anything out of anything. Absolutely go wild with this. Fur furniture/bedding is a great start, but think of the possibilities. Bone weapons, bone furniture, scale armor, tooth-tipped arrows, bins made from skulls! Any creations focused around organic parts would be best, but really you can make anything into anything so it's just a matter of figuring out what you want at this point.

Good luck, and good work so far, it seems!



EDIT: Oh, and apparently you can put critters both into and out of reactions? If true, this is a goldmine of possibilities for this mod. Requiring live critters to be used to make certain things, or producing critters out of it...
First thing that comes to mind is throwing some small critter into a workshop with a bunch of bone to make an armored version of the critter. But I'm sure with a little more thought, some ideas that are actually GOOD might come of it. ;)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 03:58:09 pm by Gobbo »
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Intelligent Shade of Blue

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2010, 04:48:31 pm »

For the Witch Doctor, the shamanic-healer types, though I wish you could change the name of a non-noble doctor, I'd rename them healers or something like that, maybe wiseman, or make wiseman be like the therapists of the tribe, that could be another noble, but I'll look into the other noble entries in the raws to see if I can set something similar to that.

Anyways yeah when I say witch doctor I mean the shamanic-healer types or if you go by older cartoons/books/the like  the guys who wear the masks and the grass skirts, or are pierced all over.

For the general "Doctor" I'd try and do much less outlandish form of the witch doctor, maybe in a long coat (of leather in my imagination)

ON RELIGION:
I say they're own gods, and maybe powers similar to forces like the elves.  I'd like to see a Kobold Sun god, as well as maybe some of the possible megabeast/titan worshipping.  (though in most of the world's I've genned there has only been 1 or 2 surviving kobold "tribes".

I'm pretty sure that you can change the names of every profession now for a race, so with the right profession tokens you could change the names of kob surgeons, bone setters, etc. In the last version, you were limited to changing the names of professions that had a corresponding (profession)_NAME token.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 04:55:38 pm by Intelligent Shade of Blue »
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Pathos

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #82 on: April 06, 2010, 05:14:41 pm »

<snip>

An actual post by gobbo. =O I feel sort've... Special. :3 I'm not sure on the whole "allowing kobbs to farm thing", unless I heavily rebalance farming to be hard as hell, ( which is a possibility, any thoughts on this anyone? ) but the rest definitely should be implemented - even if I don't have a clue how to do them. Make bone bars to make bone weapons?

On the note of implementing things, how does everyone feel about me implementing the Community Combat Balance Overhaul? Or would you rather we waited until the next version?
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Gobbo

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #83 on: April 06, 2010, 05:19:34 pm »

I'm not sure on the whole "allowing kobbs to farm thing", unless I heavily rebalance farming to be hard as hell, ( which is a possibility, any thoughts on this anyone? ) but the rest definitely should be implemented - even if I don't have a clue how to do them. Make bone bars to make bone weapons?
On the note of implementing things, how does everyone feel about me implementing the Community Combat Balance Overhaul? Or would you rather we waited until the next version?
I'll look into how to allow as many of these things as I can myself, but custom reactions should make it pretty easy to make weapons and furniture from bone without requiring them to be considered a faux-metal. You just need to tweak it properly.
As I understand it, farming is already difficult because it requires irrigation even on soil (though this is probably going to be changed soon as most people see it as a bug). I suppose very limited crops would be an alternative, or a dearth of seeds. In any case it can be left out if needed but I don't think it's any worse than fishing, which can provide pretty much infinite food in the right setting anyway. And farming takes more effort.

Another thought came up: maybe since butchering can yield blood now (I'm pretty sure?) we could allow the bolds to brew booze from blood.

As for combat, I think we should wait on the next version, since some oddities are deeper than that effort, however admirable, will be able to fix.
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Master

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2010, 06:50:37 pm »

5. I know it's against popular demand, but please, assuming it works the same as before, leave in [item_thief]. Its biggest effect is counting exported goods as 'stolen'. This has the added effect of keeping your fortress's export wealth very low while still allowing trade, meaning you won't get waves of dozens upon dozens of migrants. Keeping a relatively low population and relying on breeding was a staple of the original mod's balance. Being flooded with kobolds makes it too easy, even as weak as they are.

If that is the case then limit the population cap in the init file and modify the breeding values to suit the mod. There are better ways to limit population than forcing the [item_thief] tag IMHO.
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Bloogonis

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2010, 06:57:45 pm »

The Item theif forces your fort to maintain a low external appearance in the world which effects many more things then just migrants. also the goblins shouldn't be friends with the Kobolds, the whole point behind the Bolds is that they are a step above the animal men civs yet still below all other main civs leading to the worst of both worlds. and the point of Goblins is that they fight everyone.

I always looked at the traders from the Kobold Civ as being the Thieves returning from their tasks throughout the world.
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Squeegy

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #86 on: April 06, 2010, 07:20:42 pm »

words I didn't read
Holy shitballs it's Gobbo!
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Solifuge

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2010, 08:35:14 pm »

EDIT: Oh, and apparently you can put critters both into and out of reactions? If true, this is a goldmine of possibilities for this mod. Requiring live critters to be used to make certain things, or producing critters out of it...
First thing that comes to mind is throwing some small critter into a workshop with a bunch of bone to make an armored version of the critter. But I'm sure with a little more thought, some ideas that are actually GOOD might come of it. ;)

Extracted Venom + Blowdarts = Poison Darts. Very Kobold, I should say.

I would support letting Kobold Camp evolve to make use of more of the new capabilities beyond just fur beds and whatnot too. I see them as weaker, trickier cousin of Goblins, who know how to milk every advantage they can get. Taming critters, building simple but devious traps, etc. are the stuff of Kobolds.
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Haggle

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2010, 09:18:52 pm »

Well in commemoration of Kobold Camp taking to the next Dwarf Fortress, I've decided to just post a graphic set I made way back when I found out about Kobold Camp. It's based off of Beefmo's work becuase I'm not good enough to start from scratch.

Hope you guys like them. I took inspiration from Gobbo's Kobold drawings.
Preview:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Download Here (becuase photobucket won't upload my images)

Edit: Didn't realize Tinypic changed the file type to .jpeg. I'm a terrible person.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 09:41:59 am by Haggle »
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JFX09

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Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2010, 10:28:52 pm »

Toying around with
Code: [Select]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

 I figure Bold's would have no problem eating anything and everything they can get their hands on...

 Also an idea/suggestion if plausible, a 2nd Kobold Race, same settings, different ethics. Replace Goblin Seiges with them (Gobo's wouldn't bother with runts like kobolds....but other kobs would surely do it?)

 Just an idea. Also I do agree on adding in farming, the kobs wouldn't have much skill in it sure, but if they can make wooden huts and process plants into drink, surely they can dig a hole and plop a seed in?
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