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[Slitherrr]

The military screen and squad stuff is still a tad impenetrable, though. I feel like I shouldn't really need a wiki to tell me how to operate something whose instructions are ostensibly right on the screen for me to look at.

If this is your attitude, you're really not playing the right game. I mean, you practically have to get a freshman undergrad's understanding of geology just to make an axe.

[G-Flex]

There's a difference between a complex game and an unintuitive/limited-feedback interface. A big difference.

There are several steps involved in order to basically make any dwarf do anything militarily, which is okay, but it's incredibly difficult to actually tell what you're doing wrong along the way, because the game doesn't provide you with a whole lot of feedback. Toady knows the military screen is kind of bad, and while I like the functionality it provides (I think?), it needs to be more obvious how to use it, or when you're using it incorrectly.

Oh, and making an axe is a bad example. You can look at an ore and tell what metal it makes, and there are options right in the forge explicitly stating what items are possible to create, and workshop jobs also tell you what you're missing if you don't have what they need.

[nenjin]

There are several steps involved in order to basically make any dwarf do anything militarily, which is okay, but it's incredibly difficult to actually tell what you're doing wrong along the way, because the game doesn't provide you with a whole lot of feedback. Toady knows the military screen is kind of bad, and while I like the functionality it provides (I think?), it needs to be more obvious how to use it, or when you're using it incorrectly.

Oh, and making an axe is a bad example. You can look at an ore and tell what metal it makes, and there are options right in the forge explicitly stating what items are possible to create, and workshop jobs also tell you what you're missing if you don't have what they need.

It would be nice if the newest thing Toady has done was as polished and bug free as the rest of the game. It's not though. People are complaining about the military screen as though it's been there for months and Toady has said "it's perfect." I get the military screen already. What's holding me up is the bugs.

[G-Flex]

I never said that I expect it to be as good as the rest of the game upon first release. It's completely understandable that it's not. That doesn't mean it's bad to make note of anything wrong or cumbersome about it; hell, we should be if we feel like there is anything like that. Why do think Toady accepts feedback in the first place?

Seriously now, I expected this release to be buggy/rough (as we all did, including Toady), and I'm not complaining that it is. I'm just trying to offer feedback on it.

[Safe-Keeper]

Seriously now, I expected this release to be buggy/rough (as we all did, including Toady), and I'm not complaining that it is. I'm just trying to offer feedback on it.

Several people on these boards seem very touchy when it comes to the user interface for some reason. Never understood why.

[nenjin]

There is a definite frustration factor to how it's laid out. It takes a moment to get how menus are ordered. Toggling three fields with the one cursor is also not intuitive. As with most DF mechanics, it borders on overload. But once you play with each element and figure it all out, you realize it offers a lot of power, customization and that, when working properly, will streamline a lot of military organization.

The same is true with burrows. Once people get the chance to play with them, and all the bugs are worked out, they will work very well.

[Atanamis]

A compromise would be to have a kind of "dynamic burrow" that at any time covered anything inside, and a pre-set alert status that assigned all civilians to this burrow.

This is probably the ideal solution to replicating the old "stay inside" order. The burrow system is definitely superior to the old command, but having an easy to learn interface for controlling it may take a while. An intuitive interface doesn't have to result in a decrease in functional complexity.

[DoctorZuber]

It's not really all that hard to replicate the old stay inside behavior with the new burrow system as it is now. If anything, it's better now. Having said that, I completely agree that burrows/squads/military is a steep learning curve, it's kloodgy, it's buggy, it has issues. It's to be expected really. But we have to work with what we got until more pressing matters are resolved.

[Silverionmox]

If found burrows to be pretty straightforward. Manipulating the military, not at all.

[Safe-Keeper]

I can't remember, but if it isn't possible to set alert states from the option menu, the way you could set "outdoor states" in earlier versions, it definitely should be. A pre-set, dynamic "Inside" burrow along with a shortcut to set alert statuses in the option menu, and you have the old system back.

[Quietust]

When I first heard about burrows, I had envisioned them as being defined by specifying a boundary between two connected areas - for example, drawing a line across one's entrance hallway would make each side of the boundary become its own burrow, digging a second entrance would automatically create another burrow boundary (triggered by two burrows auto-expanding into each other upon removing the terrain between them), additional burrows would be created within the fortress by drawing lines across hallways/stairs/ramps/doorways/etc., and discovering an underground feature would automatically place a boundary at the tile you dug out.

The way it's actually been implemented is probably a bit more flexible, but I imagine it could get to be rather time consuming if you wanted the "civilian alert" status to simply forbid them from going aboveground or deeper into a cavern - while some might be okay with ordering all of their civilians to their bedrooms during a siege, others (such as myself) would much prefer them to keep working in their workshops (wherever they may be) and otherwise stay away from the battlefield until the enemy has been dealt with.

[Mephansteras]

I just created a 'Main Fortress' Burrow that encompasses all of the fortress proper. It'll prevent them from going outside or wandering the mines/caves while still allowing most of the population to do their jobs. I have to expand it every once in a while, but it's been pretty easy to keep up with and does it's job just fine.

[nenjin]

My only issue with burrows so far is that some dwarves get stuck trying to execute commands that fall outside their assigned burrow.

[Jimmy]

It would be nice if the newest thing Toady has done was as polished and bug free as the rest of the game. It's not though. People are complaining about the military screen as though it's been there for months and Toady has said "it's perfect." I get the military screen already. What's holding me up is the bugs.

Same. Screen took a few minutes to learn, didn't even use the wiki since the page wasn't created yet. Only trouble is that the military don't do what I want them to do after I've set them up (pick up the right equipment, train etc). Once they do this, I'll be happy as a baby in a beer barrel.

[JohnLukeG]

I've actually grown fond of the burrow system.  I've made an impenetrable panic room deep in my fortress that's equipped with a farm, a well, and various weapons. 

Whenever there's an attack or other various crisis, I just hit m > a and select "Panic Room".  Everyone drops what they're doing and races to the panic room, where I raise the drawbridge.

I suppose if there was something that could fly and destroy buildings it wouldn't be impenetrable, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, and don't know any way of making it truly impenetrable.