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[The-Moon]

quote:Originally posted by Sowelu:
<STRONG>

Pretty sure Toady has specifically stated that all technology after the 1300s in Europe is verboten.  I may have the year wrong... but it explicitly removed a lot of possible stuff.</STRONG>

Well Most of the "New Tech" Was already thought of or invented way before the 1300 hundreds.... So thats a pretty vague idea of what hes allowing in and not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_machine

Small hot air balloons called sky lanterns date back to the 3rd century BC and were only the second type of aircraft to fly, the first being kites.

So this means we can see hot air ballon's added in ?  

[ March 13, 2008: Message edited by: The-Moon ]

[Jreengus]

quote:Originally posted by Covenant:
<STRONG>

You resurrected a thread that old for a comment that long!?

My own thoughts, while I'm here - Minecart/rail system - very good idea. Very Dwarven. And the idea of making it require smoothed floors wouldn't be bad - smoothed fortresses are more aesthetically impressive, and newbies often forget to smooth (or smooth then engrave everywhere, which looks as naff as unsmoothed, in my opinion).</STRONG>

I personally dont feel its df dwarven, also i will always be against rail tracks because it gives the impression to me of a mine and my fortress most definetly are not mines they are cities.

[zagibu]

quote:Originally posted by LordoEverything:
<STRONG>Dog sleds would be unbeleivably cool.
But if we can train war dogs, we should be able to train workdogs to pull things.  It happened in or Real world past with some of the larger breeds pulling wagons and such...</STRONG>

My grandfather was a farmer and he had a big Saint Bernard pulling a small cart laden with milk cans. So yes, it happened in the real world, too. And not only in arctic climate.
Also, I don't understand what you can have against implementation of new features. I mean, no one forces you to build cannons, if they are implemented.

[ March 14, 2008: Message edited by: zagibu ]

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by thatguyyaknow:
<STRONG>I personally dont feel its df dwarven, also i will always be against rail tracks because it gives the impression to me of a mine and my fortress most definetly are not mines they are cities.</STRONG>

So don't build rails?  Some of use DO make our dwarves create vast mines with an iddy biddy outpost on top.

[The-Moon]

Yeah really, if you don't like something toady adds into the game, no one is forcing you to use it.

[tychoruniko]

I would like at least wheelbarrows and animal-driven carts. Let them carry stacks of stuff. Smooth floors would speed movements drastically, while rough floors would cut movement at least in half. Animal-driven carts would be even faster than wheelbarrows and capable of carrying much more. Perhaps to fit smoothly into the current system, a dwarf could have a job "Cart Driver", and a wheelbarrow could be equipped in the weapon slot like the pickaxe. I don't think there is a framework for animal-driven carts in place yet, so that might have to be done from scratch.

Lets' try some AI sudo-code:

code:

While (cart is not full AND item needs hauling){
   get item that needs hauling
}
For (i=first_item_in_cart; i<last_item_in_cart; i++){
   Deliver item i
}

With this pattern, a cart would fill up and then empty before trying to get more stuff. This would keep down the time that items languish in the cart with the downside being that it would walk past stacks of stuff that need moving until it was empty.

Perhaps when a dwarf ties an animal to a cart (with a chain, like you can chain animals now?) and then boards the cart, he goes idle and the cart becomes a "dwarf", moving and hauling like a dwarf with a wheelbarrow, just with higher speed and capacity?

[The-Moon]

quote:Originally posted by tychoruniko:
<STRONG>I would like at least wheelbarrows and animal-driven carts. Let them carry stacks of stuff. Smooth floors would speed movements drastically, while rough floors would cut movement at least in half. Animal-driven carts would be even faster than wheelbarrows and capable of carrying much more. Perhaps to fit smoothly into the current system, a dwarf could have a job "Cart Driver", and a wheelbarrow could be equipped in the weapon slot like the pickaxe. I don't think there is a framework for animal-driven carts in place yet, so that might have to be done from scratch.

Lets' try some AI sudo-code:

code:

While (cart is not full AND item needs hauling){
   get item that needs hauling
}
For (i=first_item_in_cart; i<last_item_in_cart; i++){
   Deliver item i
}

With this pattern, a cart would fill up and then empty before trying to get more stuff. This would keep down the time that items languish in the cart with the downside being that it would walk past stacks of stuff that need moving until it was empty.

Perhaps when a dwarf ties an animal to a cart (with a chain, like you can chain animals now?) and then boards the cart, he goes idle and the cart becomes a "dwarf", moving and hauling like a dwarf with a wheelbarrow, just with higher speed and capacity?</STRONG>

or the wheelbarrow could put stuff to a mine cart train, where the mine cart train has a lot more capacity then the wheelbarrow.

Which would make a more efficient system.

[ March 15, 2008: Message edited by: The-Moon ]

[ March 15, 2008: Message edited by: The-Moon ]

[PTTG??]

The problem with carts is that it is, in the programming lingo, a non-trivial problem to re-design the item hauling and task system. That's what I like about the chutes idea someone came up with a few days ago. It's over !!HERE!!. Also, slippery ramps do seem to have a strong DF vibe to me.

[Othob Rithol]

quote:Originally posted by thatguyyaknow:
<STRONG>

I personally dont feel its df dwarven, also i will always be against rail tracks because it gives the impression to me of a mine and my fortress most definetly are not mines they are cities.</STRONG>

"And they call it a mine. A mine!" - Gimli in Moria

Rails I'm against: Mechanized ( and dwarf-powered ) freight elevators I'm all for.

An idea about ox-carts (or kitten carts for those so inclined).
* New labor : Teamster
* New Building (duh) wagon (takes 3 Wood don'tcha know)
* Hitch an animal to the wagon, Teamster walks along side (yeajh I know, been said, going for completeness of thought)
* On wagon menu, choose a stockpile to take from, and one to take to.
* Option to only take full containers.
* Wagon goes to stockpile, Teamster loads until A: Wagon Full, B: Stockpile Empty
* Wagon moves to destination, unloads, repeat.
* If dwarf goes off labor (drink etc) wagon stops. Higher skill = faster wagon travel.
* Wagon rules apply (no obstacles, 3 wide path, ramps)

This would work independently of the take from stockpile option in the stockpile itself, therefore the dwarves will put the all the stonecrafts in the stockpile next to the workshops, and then the wagon will haul boxes at a time to the stocks near the depot. the woodcutters will pile the wood near the road, and the wagon will bring it to the main pile. Miners drop off the ore down in the mines, and the wagon hauls it to the smelters.

Probably all been suggested before.

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Tallim:
<STRONG>Actually that would be my preferred mechanic. Otherwise there would be dwarves running about all over the place with wheely bins. Requiring smooth floors adds another needed demand to engravers.</STRONG>

QFT. Seconded.

[Hellome]

Wait, the Otto Germain? If so,what a coincidence, I had D13 open in another tab.
You're one of the better artists online, and I'm really looking forward to Terra Exodus.

[toast]

i think that mining carts are the best idea: wagons are already coded, and horses and mules are already coded to pull them. It is probably the simplest thing to implement.

I would like to add, however, that in the railroads early stages in America the tracks were in fact wooden. This would certainly provide an alternative to metal bars, if ore is somewhat scarce.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by toast:
<STRONG>I would like to add, however, that in the railroads early stages in America the tracks were in fact wooden. This would certainly provide an alternative to metal bars, if ore is somewhat scarce.</STRONG>

Alternatively make them ONLY available as wood, thus making wood more nessessary.

Though if we do do metal tracks I'd insist on there being wood involved, if a significantly lower quantity than all-wood tracks, as you're cutting the log into the same number of bits, but using them half or a third as often.

[AlienChickenPie]

If something like that gets implemented, kittens better be able to get crushed under the wheels.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by AlienChickenPie:
<STRONG>If something like that gets implemented, kittens better be able to get crushed under the wheels.</STRONG>

I think DWARVES should get crushed (as if hit with a large bludeoning object, such as a fully laden mine cart) if they get hit.  Though--in one thread once upon a time--I think I mentioned a "grace period" type measure whereby a mine cart would force pathing around it several tiles before it got anywhere (such that you don't have the idiots step out in front just as it colides with them, but still have it happen on rare occations where the calculations happen at *just* the right moment).