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[ZeroGravitas]

No more turtles!?!?  Is that just my own civilization not having turtles? Either way, not too important.

Two problems, though:

1. Lots of things are listed twice. Like I have two entries for "cave lobster" and "cave fish".

2. Lots of new kinds of meats valued at 2 and 4 means way more free barrel abuse. (or does it?)

Other comments:

Copper axes is a good change
Reduction of anvil costs is good

[LemonFrosted]

Free barrel abuse (and ton-o-wood) will be much much harder given the reduced value of anvils and weapons, unless you skimp on Dwarf skills

[moosejuice]

Are you noticing that the animals listed twice are female and male

[ZeroGravitas]

Are you noticing that the animals listed twice are female and male

Oh, because CAVE LOBSTER and CAVE FISH are animals you embark with? Try reading the post.

[ZeroGravitas]

Free barrel abuse (and ton-o-wood) will be much much harder given the reduced value of anvils and weapons, unless you skimp on Dwarf skills

How is it harder... I still managed to take an anvil with me, use full skills, and take every single kind of 2 and 4 cost meat/fish/plant. And a bunch of alcohol, food, and bituminous coal. I also took a bunch of copper bars instead of picks and battleaxes.

Although it looks like kinds of meat stack with each other. Like Warthog meat, lung, kidney, etc will all go in a  barrel together.

[SquidgyB]

Err, I just noticed this... you can change the number of embark points as one of the options in world gen. in fact, a lot of the options in world gen have shown me why the site finder isn't really required anymore...

[ZeroGravitas]

Err, I just noticed this... you can change the number of embark points as one of the options in world gen. in fact, a lot of the options in world gen have shown me why the site finder isn't really required anymore...

interesting

probably worth reducing i guess

[MoonLightBird]

Err, I just noticed this... you can change the number of embark points as one of the options in world gen. in fact, a lot of the options in world gen have shown me why the site finder isn't really required anymore...

This is how I tested battle in the real part of the game. I loaded up my 7 dwarfs with armor and weapons, dug really far down, and tried to kill as many things as I could. I had one semi-legendary copper sword. I would say now it does make it quicker to kill things.

[SkyRender]

The new embark certainly harkens back to the days of yore, when you just picked a tile on the world map and away you went.  However, I noticed it has one big problem: you can no longer hit ESC to back out of the Embark screen and cancel starting a new game.

[Ampoliros]

while they've fixed the meat-for-free-barrels thing, evidently creature blood (under extracts) costs only 1 embark point and gives you a free barrel with it. If you can dump the stuff out (lol), you can probably net some pretty cheap barrels still

also, sand is pretty awesome on embark, even in sanded areas, as each point nets you a free bag to go along with the contents

[ZeroGravitas]

while they've fixed the meat-for-free-barrels thing,

NO! He hasn't! It's just that the NEW types of meat (prepared walrus brain) stack with the OLD meat (walrus meat). But if you have a bunch of types of meat (walrus meat versus seal meat) they will get separate barrels. barrel abuse is alive and well.

evidently creature blood (under extracts) costs only 1 embark point and gives you a free barrel with it. If you can dump the stuff out (lol), you can probably net some pretty cheap barrels still

also, sand is pretty awesome on embark, even in sanded areas, as each point nets you a free bag to go along with the contents

i suspected these but had not investigated yet.

for shame, tarn. -5 dollars from my next donation.

[LemonFrosted]

while they've fixed the meat-for-free-barrels thing,

NO! He hasn't! It's just that the NEW types of meat (prepared walrus brain) stack with the OLD meat (walrus meat). But if you have a bunch of types of meat (walrus meat versus seal meat) they will get separate barrels. barrel abuse is alive and well.

evidently creature blood (under extracts) costs only 1 embark point and gives you a free barrel with it. If you can dump the stuff out (lol), you can probably net some pretty cheap barrels still

also, sand is pretty awesome on embark, even in sanded areas, as each point nets you a free bag to go along with the contents

i suspected these but had not investigated yet.

for shame, tarn. -5 dollars from my next donation.

I guess I should say that what I'm used to for barrel/wood abuse is no more. I used to get 1300 extra points from ditching the anvil and one of the two axes which I could then use to max out all dwarf skills, take at least one of every kind of meat, 80-100 drink, 50 turtles, 20 of each seed, and 300 logs. Since weapons and anvils are no longer worth so much more in relation to everything else I can no longer trivialize initial setup with siege-worthy food supplies.

[ZeroGravitas]

while they've fixed the meat-for-free-barrels thing,

NO! He hasn't! It's just that the NEW types of meat (prepared walrus brain) stack with the OLD meat (walrus meat). But if you have a bunch of types of meat (walrus meat versus seal meat) they will get separate barrels. barrel abuse is alive and well.

evidently creature blood (under extracts) costs only 1 embark point and gives you a free barrel with it. If you can dump the stuff out (lol), you can probably net some pretty cheap barrels still

also, sand is pretty awesome on embark, even in sanded areas, as each point nets you a free bag to go along with the contents

i suspected these but had not investigated yet.

for shame, tarn. -5 dollars from my next donation.

I guess I should say that what I'm used to for barrel/wood abuse is no more. I used to get 1300 extra points from ditching the anvil and one of the two axes which I could then use to max out all dwarf skills, take at least one of every kind of meat, 80-100 drink, 50 turtles, 20 of each seed, and 300 logs. Since weapons and anvils are no longer worth so much more in relation to everything else I can no longer trivialize initial setup with siege-worthy food supplies.

Well I too would definitely ditch the axes. There was absolutely no reason to take them, instead you just take copper bars and make your own axes on arrival.

But I have to say, if you're taking meat that costs more than 4, it's not really barrel abuse. Even taking the 6-point meats isn't really efficient. You can always take wood for 3, right? So any new meat (or any 11th meat) is basically discounted by 3 because you're getting a free wood (ie, the barrel). A 6-point meat is just as nutritious as a 2-point meat.  So if you take your 6-point meat and subtract your barrel value (3), you're paying 3-points for a meat. Conclusion: you could have just added a wood and another 2-point food, for a total of 5, instead of adding any meat costing 6 more or more.

Short version: real barrel abuse only uses 2 and 4 point food. After that you take the food you need and you take wood.

I'm also still not taking axes and picks on embark. I'm taking copper bars and fuel and 2 stones, then building the forge and smelter on-site and making fuel and picks and an axe. 100-point anvil is a godsend.

I am taking 16-25 of each seed, though, and of course making dwarf skills.

[dragon0421]

for shame, tarn. -5 dollars from my next donation.

That's a little harsh.

If you want to get rid of barrel abuse (or bag abuse appearance), don't exploit the game. It's not as if you're competing with other abusers or somehow compelled to abuse it.

[LemonFrosted]

Well I too would definitely ditch the axes. There was absolutely no reason to take them, instead you just take copper bars and make your own axes on arrival.

But I have to say, if you're taking meat that costs more than 4, it's not really barrel abuse. Even taking the 6-point meats isn't really efficient. You can always take wood for 3, right? So any new meat (or any 11th meat) is basically discounted by 3 because you're getting a free wood (ie, the barrel). A 6-point meat is just as nutritious as a 2-point meat.  So if you take your 6-point meat and subtract your barrel value (3), you're paying 3-points for a meat. Conclusion: you could have just added a wood and another 2-point food, for a total of 5, instead of adding any meat costing 6 more or more.

Short version: real barrel abuse only uses 2 and 4 point food. After that you take the food you need and you take wood.

I'm also still not taking axes and picks on embark. I'm taking copper bars and fuel and 2 stones, then building the forge and smelter on-site and making fuel and picks and an axe. 100-point anvil is a godsend.

I am taking 16-25 of each seed, though, and of course making dwarf skills.

I was being a bit hyperbolic, not so much running down my actual embark inventory. The basic point is still that a 100Γ anvil is 1/10th it's previous cost, meaning no matter how you game the current embark it's still going to be 900Γ less.