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[WeekendGamer]

Hi,
This game has pretty much everything i ever wanted in a sandbox game. My first fortress ended as a trader wen't crazy and killed all my dwarves after i locked him in an empty mineshaft. My third fortress is going well, though. Couple of newbie questions:

I like being independent from trade, especially when it comes to food. However, it doesn't seem like i can get a surplus of seeds out of my food industry. For every plump helmet i eat or brew, i get a spawn back, but i don't gain more than that, ever right? The overall amount of plump helmets and spawns stay the same? What about cave wheat?

For convenience sake my kitchen, meeting hall, barracks are on the same z- level as my farms. That means they are accessible but have loam walls. No smoothing and engraving allowed. Which of the rooms should i put deeper underground in a stone layer to increase room value? And how can i make these loamy rooms pretty? Floor tiles? A statue maybe? I already put a masterpiece table in there and at least one dwarf reacted positively to it.

My mason isn't very specific when it comes to material. He would make a throne out of bauxite and bituminous coal if i didn't hide those rocks far away from him. It seems i can't forbid him outright to use these kinds of rock, or can i? Also i wanted to make a stockpile of bituminous coal, but i couldn't find it in any of the menus. What category is in?

Questions, questions... I'll probably be back with more. :/

[Innominate]

I like being independent from trade, especially when it comes to food. However, it doesn't seem like i can get a surplus of seeds out of my food industry. For every plump helmet i eat or brew, i get a spawn back, but i don't gain more than that, ever right? The overall amount of plump helmets and spawns stay the same? What about cave wheat?

More than one crop can grow from one seed. It depends almost entirely on the skill of whoever plants the seed (modulated by randomness of course), but you can get between 0 and - according to an old Toady quote - about 11. You'll be swimming in seeds once you have a legendary grower.

For convenience sake my kitchen, meeting hall, barracks are on the same z- level as my farms. That means they are accessible but have loam walls. No smoothing and engraving allowed. Which of the rooms should i put deeper underground in a stone layer to increase room value? And how can i make these loamy rooms pretty? Floor tiles? A statue maybe? I already put a masterpiece table in there and at least one dwarf reacted positively to it.

A pretty dining hall is the easiest way to make your dwarves perpetually ecstatic. Add a waterfall mist generator and they won't ever tantrum.

My mason isn't very specific when it comes to material. He would make a throne out of bauxite and bituminous coal if i didn't hide those rocks far away from him. It seems i can't forbid him outright to use these kinds of rock, or can i? Also i wanted to make a stockpile of bituminous coal, but i couldn't find it in any of the menus. What category is in?

You can forbid certain types of rock being used if they are economic types. Go to the "Z" status menu and then to the section called "Stone". You can then toggle the use of those types for minor purposes using "enter".

Bituminous coal should be in "Stone" -> "Economic".

[WeekendGamer]

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Zaranthan]

Innominate covered all the bases, so I'll just say grats on losing your first fort to violence rather than a logistical problem. My first fort went belly-up because I didn't realize you could prevent brewable plants from being cooked.

[jellow belly]

um, here's some interesting comments

who eats plump helmets anyway, thats a waste of a good brewable plant
you can get more plants in one stack if you fertilize (which wastes good wood but hey, it's not like you will live long enough to use all the wood on a map unless you have a heavy steel production)
and being independent food-wise is just stupid, you should be making a huge surplus of rock crafts (unless you want your floors strewn with useless stone) and theres always the friendly goblins bringing you all those narrow cave spider silk socks
oh and you might want to take a grower with you on embark it really helps

why not make the dining room two z-levels below your farms and put a stockpile and processing area in between. it definitely saves your poor (may I say lazy) dorfs a long walk
and if it's lower it's easier to install a waterfall because you have room for a reservoir above (if you decide to make one remember make lots of drains even where you don't expect water to reach because socks like to get caught in between doors)

if you want to forbid rock, store it in a special stockpile and forbid it (you'll never have that much bauxite anyway since you should be using it if you have magma and if you don't have magma it's just as useful as any other stone) all other useful stones are economical
and smelt all that coal immediately, it's not like it has any other uses

[Karnewarrior]

1: you already are independant. your dorfs can and will produce a surplus of everything right now.
2:public spaces and bedrooms are the only things that work better in a stone layer. Everything else doesn't care.
3:you could make it all economic stones, but it may be easier to just make a stone stockpile that only accepts grey stones right next to your masons workshop.

[jellow belly]

... but it may be easier to just make a stone stockpile that only accepts gray stones right next to your masons workshop.

which generally results in your mason going down two or three z-levels to get a stone because he thinks it's closer (oh and the staircase is usually halfway across the fort so always make your masons workshop next to staircases, unless you don't mind your mason stopping five steps from your workshop to go eat, go down to get a new stone then seven steps from the workshop stop to go drink then after another stone he's going to want to sleep and after he finally completes whatever he tried so hard to make he will go on a brake and say "Elf you!")

[WeekendGamer]

um, here's some interesting comments

who eats plump helmets anyway, thats a waste of a good brewable plant

Well, from what i've heard, i can turn drinks into meals if thats what you mean. I have also sewn some dimple cups and rock nuts. I think i can eat and brew latter.

you can get more plants in one stack if you fertilize (which wastes good wood but hey, it's not like you will live long enough to use all the wood on a map unless you have a heavy steel production)

Do you think that would be worth it? I have plenty of farmland.

and being independent food-wise is just stupid, you should be making a huge surplus of rock crafts (unless you want your floors strewn with useless stone) and theres always the friendly goblins bringing you all those narrow cave spider silk socks
oh and you might want to take a grower with you on embark it really helps

Nah, i don't want to export the stuff, i just don't want to import anything. Some of the tutorials made it look like there was a danger of running out of supplies until the caravans are there. I don't want that.

And i have a proper grower who is doing the farming.

why not make the dining room two z-levels below your farms and put a stockpile and processing area in between. it definitely saves your poor (may I say lazy) dorfs a long walk
and if it's lower it's easier to install a waterfall because you have room for a reservoir above (if you decide to make one remember make lots of drains even where you don't expect water to reach because socks like to get caught in between doors)

Seems like a good idea, i'm gonna try that.

if you want to forbid rock, store it in a special stockpile and forbid it (you'll never have that much bauxite anyway since you should be using it if you have magma and if you don't have magma it's just as useful as any other stone) all other useful stones are economical
and smelt all that coal immediately, it's not like it has any other uses

Haven't found magma yet, but wanted to reserve it for that exact purpose. I now know how

Anyway thanks for the answers. I really appreciate it
Here are two more questions:

Defense. My fortress is pretty much a hole in the ground like a molehill on a plain. I trained two war dogs with the intent of chaining them to the entrance but thats not gonna help me against bigger enemies. Any good tips on defending such an accessible location? I have no elevation on my map so building a wall is my first priority. And some deadfall traps of course. I read that i need a wall of 2 z-levels height to keep invaders out. Is that right? I have a neat wall design with fortifications in mind.

Wells. My dwarves drink from a drinking zone next to a pond on the surface. That's convenient at the moment, but not classy at all. I haven't found any underwater rivers yet. I'm planning a potential disaster. I want to drain the water from the pond into an underwater cistern. I'm not that concerned about flooding my base but rather about having it spread everywhere and evaporate since it's not all that much water. Any safe way to do this? I guess i have to channel a pool underground for this to work.

[Jurph]

Wells. My dwarves drink from a drinking zone next to a pond on the surface. That's convenient at the moment, but not classy at all. I haven't found any underwater rivers yet. I'm planning a potential disaster. I want to drain the water from the pond into an underwater cistern. I'm not that concerned about flooding my base but rather about having it spread everywhere and evaporate since it's not all that much water. Any safe way to do this? I guess i have to channel a pool underground for this to work.

The safest way is to dig a web of single-tile pipes on the same level as your murky pools, but leave one tile intact at the edge of the pool.  For bonus points, build floodgates in the pipes, connect them to levers, test your mechanisms, close the pipes off, and channel away the tiles immediately. 

Next connect the surface pipes to a vertical shaft leading down to your cistern.  For this part you can do up/down stairs, or use ramp-and-channel if you want to have an open pipe.  On the bottom level of the vertical pipe (which will become the top level of your cistern) you may want to tunnel a single tile corridor horizontally for 10-30 tiles to leave room for a dining hall over the cistern.  This is not mandatory, but it will allow you to have a well in the middle of the floor of your dining hall without having to build your dining room around a flooding pipe fixture.

Count up the number of pool tiles you're draining and dig a cistern that has approximately the same volume.  For aesthetics I like to dig a circular cistern, but you can get away with 5x5 or 7x7 as long as you have enough Z-levels to contain all the water you're draining.  If you did levers and floodgates, go with a 2- or 3-level cistern and as small a footprint as you can get away with (3x3x3, for example).

If you're obsessive, you can smooth the cistern and dump all the rock that has accumulated.  If not, channel away the last tile at the edge of each pool and let 'er rip.  The cistern should fill up, and you can channel a hole into its ceiling from above and build a well over it.  The top-most layer of your cistern will likely evaporate but it will take a long time for your dwarves to deplete the rest.  If you're using levers and gates, you can fill your cistern without depleting your murky pools, and if you get enough rain those pools will refill instead of evaporating, giving you a perpetual water supply.

[jellow belly]

one well should probably be enough since healthy dwarfs should drink booze

as for defense you shouldn't wall yourself in completely and most ambushes can be taken care of by stone fall traps or cage traps if you enjoy ritual sacrifices as for sieges you only need a couple of marksdwarfs(make sure they are safe behind fortifications) or legendary hammerdwarfs

and well a defensive wall needs only one level of wall but you might want to make fortifications on top

Well, from what i've heard, i can turn drinks into meals if thats what you mean. I have also sewn some dimple cups and rock nuts. I think i can eat and brew latter.

well you shouldn't unless your desperate or have about 500 booze for every 10 dwarfs then you can cook the surplus

you can get more plants in one stack if you fertilize (which wastes good wood but hey, it's not like you will live long enough to use all the wood on a map unless you have a heavy steel production)

Do you think that would be worth it? I have plenty of farmland.

probably not because all that wood is better used on barrels to store all that booze

and being independent food-wise is just stupid, you should be making a huge surplus of rock crafts (unless you want your floors strewn with useless stone) and theres always the friendly goblins bringing you all those narrow cave spider silk socks
oh and you might want to take a grower with you on embark it really helps

Nah, i don't want to export the stuff, i just don't want to import anything. Some of the tutorials made it look like there was a danger of running out of supplies until the caravans are there. I don't want that.

I didn't mean depend on the caravans but it's stupid not to buy all that food and booze that they bring (especially booze since it doesn't decay) it's good for emergency rations and you get free barrels

I rely on the caravans for meat, cheese, flower and sugar (yes I only produce plump helmets and quarry bushes on site, sometimes other brewable stuff but not en masse) but the booze comes in barrels which is handy if you're short on wood

[WeekendGamer]

Ok, why is my trade depot inaccessible? The whole map seems inacccessible even thought its perfect grassland. There aren't any boulders or trees in the way. I suspect they can't drive through my furrowed farmland? And why doesn't anybody remove my trade depot, even though it's slated for removal. I have several idling masons and architects. This is stupid.

EDIT:
Ok, the depot works now just the way it worked before. Took me too long, traders are gone. Still don't know why it didn't get removed.

[andrewas]

Yes, Dwarfs are stupid. There's almost always a reason for what they do though, once you know the game well enough to spot it.

Anyway, hit 'D' and you will see space where wagons can route from your depot and red where they cannot. There needs to be a three tile path for wagons to get in, of which only the center tile will appear green. I haven't checked whether they can go through farmland but that may well be your problem.

As for why they havent removed the depot, IIRC a depot built from wood will require carpentry to remove, so if your carpenter is otherwise occupied enable that labor on another dwarf or wait for him to get around to it.

[WeekendGamer]

Well, I checked the depot screen, the whole map was red, even around the depot and the borders. And the removal screen explicitly stated, masonry needed. It's a mistery i guess.
Aside from trading issues, the fortress is doing very well.