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Author Topic: 40d: Icemooon. Casting obsidian in an ocean  (Read 2930 times)

Lytha

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2010, 03:57:46 am »

So, I tried DF 2010, but the lack of Dwarf Therapist support is killing me. u-*scrollscroll*-c-(v v v)-"err, where is it?"-*scrollscroll*-enter-space is just too much pain in comparison to "mouseclick into DTherapist, minimize children, point and click and submit". Also, there are giant cave spider webs in the cavern that I breached, and this is intimidating me.

This means that I am back at the obsidian tower of the deep sea. :)

Right now, a 6 or 8 level aquifer below the black sand beach smashed my plans to have a massive pump stack right there to save some rocks-in-magmaduct-construction. I can breach 1-2 levels of aquifer just fine, but 6-8 levels of completely soaked sandstone? Meep. Maybe I will have another go at that when I am bored though; Reveal did show some minerals more or less in perfect position just below that desired position for the pump stack in between the wet sandstone.

This means that I will probably have to go up to the surface through the glacier's ice, as in the experimental first attempt, and this held a whole lot of fun for the experimental pumping dwarves ("Can I pump magma below ice? Lets just try this with a pumping operateur instead of connecting the pump stack to the power generator!" *Urist McPumper has been encased in ice*). But I should be able to deal with that now. 

I try to avoid the mistake of getting too native below the glacier this time.. even though, who wouldn't want to live below some thousands of tons of vicious ice, trapped between a vicious ocean and a magma pipe, which looks like it's threatening to blow up, if it only could breach that 3 level obsidian cap?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 04:10:50 am by Lytha »
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Lytha likes fire clay, rose gold, green glass, bags, the colour midnight blue, and cats for their aloofness. When possible, she prefers to consume tea and cow cheese.

Squirrelloid

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2010, 09:07:08 am »

So, having done a lot of thinking about how to do something like this, the best ways to build in deep water are:

1) get refined coal in a bin, put that bin out near the map edge over the water, heat with magma (superheated bin!), drop into water.  Repeat at regular intervals around map edge.  Watch ocean get evaporated (and new water spawning from map edge gets instantly annihilated).  Lasts about one year, repeat as necessary.  Build from now dry ground up.

Note this lets you make your structure out of whatever you want: Metal, green glass, whatever

2) Cast the levels of your fortress on the ocean surface with magma, and then drop each layer one by one.

Other options end up looking a lot rougher or give you a lot less control over shape.  Which isn't to say an inverted pyramid won't look cool, but if you're making successively smaller casts you have a lot less control over your end shape.
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Lytha

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2010, 07:42:57 pm »

Are you sure that this would work on a 12 z-level deep ocean that occupies about 80% of the entire map?

I think that my inverted pyramid won't look too messy, because I'll put a casting form onto the ocean's top level and will only dump magma into the middle of it at the beginning. The undirected cave-ins should provide me with some obsidian pillars so that I have a bit less work to do later on, but because they will only occur in the center of the future construction, they should correlate with the base of the inverted pyramid quite well.
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Lytha likes fire clay, rose gold, green glass, bags, the colour midnight blue, and cats for their aloofness. When possible, she prefers to consume tea and cow cheese.

SolarShado

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2010, 08:37:30 pm »

Just tossing this out there, but if you want to farm in the ooze on the sea-floor, you'll need to pump some water out without covering the bottom with magma. otherwise you'll have a lot of obsidian floor instead of ooze.
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Frumple

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2010, 09:05:59 pm »

Kind of a minor note for the cave-in heavy propositions earlier in the thread: You can disable or change the display of announcements now. Their behavior's controlled by the /data/init/announcements.txt file.
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Lytha

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2010, 04:12:51 am »

Just tossing this out there, but if you want to farm in the ooze on the sea-floor, you'll need to pump some water out without covering the bottom with magma. otherwise you'll have a lot of obsidian floor instead of ooze.
No, this wasn't the case when I built a shapeless obsidian tower thing on a white sand in z=-5 below the ocean's surface. The obsidian did sit on top of that white sand, didn't change it into obsidian or anything.

I know that I can only dig these parts of the first layer of ooze that are covered by obsidian (and thus not damp), but there are 4 or 5 ooze layers in total at the bottom of the sea; no aquifers in the top 2 of these. That will be more than enough for farming.



Kind of a minor note for the cave-in heavy propositions earlier in the thread: You can disable or change the display of announcements now. Their behavior's controlled by the /data/init/announcements.txt file.
Hm... that would be a good reason to do this in DF2010, but I had a hard enough time to find this idyllic map in 40d, so I don't feel very much like genning maps in DF2010 over and over just for this. Also, lack of Dwarf Therapist support for DF2010 does stop me from doing this... yes, I am such a crybaby about the interface. ;)



Progress is slow, but steady, by the way. The catwalk on the water is now at the spot where I want to set up an extra obsidian blob (quarters for the miner, booze pile). The magma-duct is slowly approaching the same spot, but still 70ish tiles too far south to take the turn to the left.

The power generator for the main magma pump stack had some issues, but seems to be fixed now.

To entertain myself while watching the dwarves build the magma-duct, I'm giving one of the 2nd generation dwarves a full training in all applicable skills... she's legendary engraver and miner already.

This one and her husband are freaks of nature... or freaks of my bad memory. I had set the length of childhood for dwarves to 2 before, when I had run out of adults for my experiments on the white sand. Now I was sure that I had reset that, but little Zasit and Reg became adults at the ripe age of 2... after all, I had forgotten to save the resetted raw file. They fell in love with 3 and married with 4-5. Now at erm 8(?) years, they already have 3 kids.

The more amusing part of it is that Zasit's elder brother is still a child.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 11:31:35 am by Lytha »
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Lytha likes fire clay, rose gold, green glass, bags, the colour midnight blue, and cats for their aloofness. When possible, she prefers to consume tea and cow cheese.

Lytha

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2010, 09:09:05 pm »

So... it's the year 19 now (I started in the year 4), and there has been progress. I only need to complete the magma-duct planning and plumbing, and then the magma pouring will begin.

To celebrate the occasion of the closing of the casting form, I will post some screenshots.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The fps are still quite decent, but I think I need to prescribe the antibaby pill to some of the ladies. They are at 80 dwarves now, and I don't really want them to have 16+ babies each. Maybe I'll do some gender-bending with Dwarf Companion. If that works with cats, then it should also work with dwarves.

But to my horror I realized that two of the original breeding pairs worship a god named "Ostar Rakustostar" (aka "Ostar Tombsburial"). He is associated with death - this means that half of my fortress' population are essentially goths.


Year 24

The magma plumbing is done. It looks like a giant tri-dent with some extra spikes at the center one now; I went for extra door hatches to have full control over everything. Linking those 30ish doors and hatches drove me a bit nuts, but it works now. There is even an emergency lever system near the meeting hall.

Also, a bronze colossus made his way to my amazing fortress in this year. He spawned right inside of the caravan entrance; so the drawbridges wouldn't have helped even if I had remembered to keep them closed. I had no military at that point (or now), so I had to hope that there was no TRAPAVOID in his stats... which it wasn't. Quite anticlimactic. I don't really know what to do with him now, so I just keep him in the animal trap stockpile. Contrary to that lonely male polar bear, he can't be tamed or anything.

By the way, if I place his cage outside during mid-winter, he will become white instead of yellow. Nice!



Year 25

Half a year later, the first obsidian disk is done!

The cave-ins below the central, unsupported blob didn't behave as expected though. There is just one 1x1 wide pillar below the center of it, instead of a whole mess of obsidian pillars.

Instead of that, the other obsidian blobs did drop some junk, so that the bottom of the sea looks quite messy now... but that will have to do.

I also ramped my way down to the bottom floor of the blob, so that the access for the downward level will be easier. I realized that all of this ramping will provide me with more obsidian than I could ever wish for... but I won't recover all of it, simply because dumping all of it would take years per z-level.


Oh, in other news, the baron and his followers appeared several years ago. The baron is a bit whiny about Nish living in a bedroom just as good as his, I think, but he will have to cope with that. I also dumped a silver statue into his bedroom to shut him up.

This is my first time with the economy, the baron, and 100+ dwarves, by the way. Previous fortresses died earlier because I grew bored or because the fps bomb had hit them.

Also, it's the first fortress where "there are no criminals" at all (also never a sheriff was appointed), so I let the hammerer roam around freely. The nobles so far don't have the really insane mandates as on previous fortresses ("build 3 star metal items", indeed... grr.) Nish the mayor is in particular very easy to deal with. She usually forbids the export of high boots, which my civilization can't produce at all; and there are no human or elven caravans.

It is, after all, a very peaceful map with mammoths, penguins (I took their [CHILD] token away, because they stole FPS at an alarming rate), the occasional polar bear, and one bronze colossus. I can't have any annoying siege distractions while I pump the magma.

I find it unsettling that pests like the concubine of the baron or the tax collector can make mandates though.


Also, I've had 3 fathers-of-17 kids neutered by Dwarf Companion. Actually, they are female now, because I think that neutering them might not be the nicest thing ever or that DF will know what to do with a neutered dwarf at all. I went for the fathers because I don't know if there might be problems if I neuter the mothers while they're probably pregnant yet again. The 3 transsexuals still show up as "Husband" and "Father" in the relationship lists of their relatives, but know themselves that they are female now. This should keep the population explosion a bit at bay; and I am thinking of doing the same to the other fathers as well. Chinese style 1-baby-per-marriage policy might be coming up too.

It's sort of funny, actually. After the gender change surgery, they dropped unconcious and exhausted for a while (I had to set their exhaustion to lower levels so that they would get up again instead of lying around on the narrow catwalk.)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 04:30:41 am by Lytha »
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Lytha likes fire clay, rose gold, green glass, bags, the colour midnight blue, and cats for their aloofness. When possible, she prefers to consume tea and cow cheese.

Lytha

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Re: Casting obsidian in an ocean
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2010, 07:14:38 am »

Some years later

This channeling process is painful. More than anything, it's annoying that the miner will always go to drink when he should hurry and channel that magma tile. I admit that I started to use Tweak's Tile Edit now at some points to add 1/7 magma onto a tile in question, because it was just too annoying.

With dwarves working themself into dehydration and starvation, this would be easier in DF2010. But I've gone so far now...

Also, I noticed that I need a bigger circle. If I go down one z-level, I need to reduce the circle by enough tiles to have a solid edge around the new one, and circles will have irregularities with the edges after a while... meaning that I would shrink the circle by 2 tiles every 2 z-levels later on.

Hard to explain in words, I guess, but I needed 2 more tiles on the outer edge of the circle - or to convert the circle into a square. A square tower would have been boring, and so I selected the choice of adding some more tiles to the edge. I got these now, and the ocean's bottom is covered in microcline now. Which isn't very nice.

I was so frustrated at times that I made a DF2010 fortress (volcano, ocean, and a giant hoard = interesting), but I returned to the obsidian tower project after a short vacation.

I also learned a trick that will make things easier in the further z-levels: leaving pockets of 7/7 magma on the z-level in progress. If I poke into these, I have 1/7 magma on 7 tiles, ready to be channeled down one z-level: no hassle with the levers and less opportunity for the miner to run off to drink.


Yeah well, and I had more visitors. First of, my defenses don't work against flying monsters, and dragons can fly. Secondly, I am using a (reduced) Dig Deeper mod: More flying megabeasts. Thirdly, for unknown reasons, my hole in the glacier has become an attraction for dragons, colossi and ancient vampires.

There was this one bronze colossus, who still sits in the cage. Then there was a dragon who demolished the screwpump setup where I had done my aquifer experiments (before I killed him with Dwarf Companion).

Then another dragon appeared. This one was friendly, and leader of a far away goblin tribe. He flew into my fortress and did hang around in the fishery then for a year or so. This was quite weird, but acceptable.

However, in next spring, just as I was adding the extra tiles to the circle's edge and phoning with my sister, an ancient vampire appeared.

The ancient vampire wasn't friendly, but did fly into the fortress in the same way that the dragon had taken. There, he met the dragon in the fishery.

The two of them battled it out. And sadly, the friendly dragon died.

And then, even though the corridor was littered with ancient vampire chunks, he proceeded to kill off some cats and to harass the dwarves in the nearby stockpile. When I checked him with Dwarf Companion, he wasn't hurt at all! So well, I killed him with Dwarf Companion too.

I got to say: in this case, gamer integrity without "cheating" < obsidian tower in the ooze.

So, anyway, I should have started this project without Dig Deeper. It's not as if I could plant flax and tomatoes on a glacier/ocean map anyway... and these extra plants were the reason why I went for that mod at all.


Megabeasts and frustration aside: the temporaty fortress is doing fine. There is a massive lack of work for everyone but the chosen miner, but this just means that they hang around in the meeting place and become legendary comedians. I try to rotate the jobs so that every single peasant becomes legendary something after a while, because I am playing with the economy active.

I also got my first couple of "criminals", because I ignored some obnoxious mandate by the obnoxious good-for-nothing-idiots... I already had to change Bismuth into something that could be crafted into some items earlier but I lost my patience now. The result of a free-roaming hammerer without hammer, no sheriff and no prisons is excellent: No punishments whatsoever where ever dealt. So, I'm going to ignore all the mandates from now on.

The baron turned into a count a while ago, and I have no clue at all  when or if the queen will ever travel into this icehole.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 07:26:45 am by Lytha »
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Lytha likes fire clay, rose gold, green glass, bags, the colour midnight blue, and cats for their aloofness. When possible, she prefers to consume tea and cow cheese.
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