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Author Topic: For Science!  (Read 8887 times)

Kidiri

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For Science!
« on: March 25, 2010, 05:13:06 pm »

Background story, look at the bottom for further explanation.

Welcome to Lathonstal. Today we will be answering your questions. We have the finest of Dwarven engineers and scientists to answer your every question. If you have a scientific question that needs answering, we will do anything within the realm of the possible -and sometimes even the  impossible- to answer your questions. Please enter, while I guide you around the area.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We have chosen this site for it's abundance of resources, both mineral and non-mineral. There's a magma pipe, a chasm, a bottomless pit and a brook. Our surveyors have a very strong suspicion that beneath the rocks there are an underground lake, an underground river and even some adamantine! They have also taken some core samples and found that there's rhyolite, marble and diorite in the mountainous part of the site, and silty clay loam, loam and black sand on top of the previously mentioned layers of stone. There are also some people who have travelled around and said they have seen giant cave spiders lurking about. And a few madmen tell tales of abominable creatures from the depths that lurk deep beneath the soil of the area of our choice. But we are men of science! We do not believe such mad-talk.

So now that we have shown you the area, it's time to meet the crew, don't you think? Firstly, there's me, the expedition leader. I'm actually named Sodel Atīstrīthol, but I like people to call me Kidiri.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Next up is our resident miner/mechanic, Dīshmab Gadankeskal.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our mason/architect goes under the name of Dumed Medtobinąl.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then we have the person who'll provide us with food, stone crafter and bone carver Lokum Ishlumlibash;
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But here we have the person supplying us with booze, grower/herbalist Čzum Fikodlokum.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And there's also the guy who'll cook it all up, or brew it all up, Stākud Logemked.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But seeing as all that booze has got to go somewhere, we have our carpenter and woodcutter Goden Lelumstākud
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now that you have met the crew, I think it's time for us to have a little chat about the science we'll be conducting here. While they're setting up base camp, you can tell me all about the reason we're here. Give us the experiments and we'll do it, or die trying.

----------

For those who hadn't figured it out yet, I'm making this fort to do some science. If you have suspicions you want proven, I'll try and run a couple of experiments. I'm using a vanilla 40d19 Dwarf Heaven map, because of the mentioned abundance of resources. I've set the population cap to 40 in order to minimize the chances of any noble arriving. I've also turned off invaders, artefacts and weather. If you want an experiment including one of these on, specifically tell me to do so. I will also not accept experiments on things that are about to change in DF2010, so this almost completely limits it to just physics experiments. But if you can find other interesting experiments, don't hesitate to ask. Also, if you suggest an experiment, state it's name (which will be the custom profession of the dwarf assigned to you), the question you want answered/it's purpose, the approximate size of the experiment (small, large, huge, medium... something that takes a lot of constructing will be larger than something like seeing what the maximum population of creatures is or something) and (optional) the name of who will be the 'leader' of the experiment, if none given it will be your forum name. The handiest for all parties would be to just fill in this form. Please post it at the very top of your post.
I'll state the approved experiments in the thread, and here in this post, along with their status (Approved, In progress, Finished, Disapproved or Delayed). Look here before you suggest an experiment. Anyway, I'm off to make the basic fort. I'll come tomorrow and see what you have thought of. For Science!

EDIT: Added the 'Delayed' category.

Experiments (each experiment name is a link. Click it to gain more knowledge!)
Megabeast Children: Delayed. I'll have to turn on invaders and I'm not quite ready for it yet. I might do other invader-related experiments later on, but not yet for now.
Water Elevator: In progress. I'm currently training the swimmer.
Flaming Dwarves: Delayed. The population is not large enough (yet) in order to sacrifice dwarves.
The Eternal Flame: In progress. I'v made a custom reaction that makes walrus leather, which ignites at 10000° U, or 0° C, and starts taking damage at 25000° U, the same temperature as adamantine.
Walking Distance: Disapproved. As much as I would love to see what the maximum distance is a dwarf must walk in order to do a job, there are too many variables. I would have to take in account the degree of hunger, sleep, thirst, toughness, agility -for certain jobs even strength- and preferences of a dwarf. I don't think I would be able to do reliable tests.
Survival in Cages: In progress. The room's set up, and the dwarves are caged. I'll remove all (or at least, most) external variables by editing the caged dwarves in Companion so they'll have no hunger, thirst, drowsiness etc when the experiment begins.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 05:13:05 pm by Kidiri »
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Rumrusher

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 07:49:02 pm »

can you get a megabeast children if you swap the pregnant race to one?
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ShadowLuigi147

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 08:04:57 pm »

Experiment name:
Water Elevator
Experiment purpose:
If you get a dwarf with swimming, can you make water elevators? And I mean a very good swimmer, so that he can traverse z-levels on a large scale.
Experiment size:
Small: 3 or 4 z-levels
Medium: 10 z-levels
Large: 25 ish z-levels
Notes/other:
You can test it with elves by disarming them and then throwing them in, and if they make it there's a cage trap there to catch them. We wouldn't want to waste any :D
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Ah, Dwarf Fortress. The only game where it's considered perfectly normal to discuss the most efficient method of farming and butchering friendly sentient beings for their valuable bones...

Danjen

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 09:00:21 pm »

Experiment name:
Flaming Dwarves

Experiment purpose:
To determine how flammable naked and fully clothed dwarves are. Possible uses of this research could be to restrict damage from a fire that starts without your knowledge.

Experiment size:
Should be small, simple and to the point. More complex tests could involve seeing how easily the fire spreads.
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Cheddarius

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 09:25:19 pm »

Watching.
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LegoLord

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 10:13:02 pm »

While some of the specific iterations of HEATDAM_POINT and IGNITE_POINT are probably going out next version, the non-adjective versions of the tag are staying in, last I heard.
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Retro

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 10:18:23 pm »

Will you perform modding experiments?

In some cases modding is necessary for controlled testing or something similar, so I'd assume so. Hopefully, anyhow.

Odd!x

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2010, 02:07:40 am »

I'll rip my beard out before I pass up watching /this/ thread
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darkrider2

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2010, 06:04:38 am »

I am requesting an experiment regarding the optimum distance for a stockpile to be from the meeting area.

A distance long enough to keep the dwarf traveling for a while but short enough so he doesn't go get a drink, eat, or sleep, when Urist McIdiot is 2 spaces away from his current objective.
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melkorp

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2010, 09:29:35 am »

Your fortress name should be "Mythbust"
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...It should be pretty fun though.

HmH

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 11:41:40 am »

Experiment name:
Survival in cages

Experiment purpose:
How long will the dwarf survive in a cage, given the completely isolated self-sufficient complex designed and constructed specifically for the purpose of keeping them alive? How long will they remain sane? Are caged dwarves fed with prepared food or trapped vermin? Are caged dwarves' happiness affected by miasma and quality of food and water? Do the caged dwarves' wounds heal? What labor governs the "feed the dwarf" job?
Additional: Do the caged nobles mandate anything? Do the insane nobles in cages mandate anything? Are the insane nobles in cages replaced? Are the sane nobles in cages replaced? How long will the other group of caged dwarves survive outside that complex, depending on the unorganized haulers? Can a caged dwarf throw a tantrum? Will the caged dwarves be fed when the Tax Collector arrives?

Experiment size:
Small: A caging machine.
Medium to large: The life-sustainment complex.

Notes/other:
Using Dwarf Therapist when counting happiness is advised.
Preferable amount of test subjects in each group: four to ten.
Caging machine needs a cave-in generator and a cage trap. Complexity of life-sustainment complex is up to you.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 11:43:33 am by HmH »
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Kidiri

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 02:11:58 pm »

Okay, sirs, tell me what kind of experiments you had in mind.

- Well, it's not exactly  what we had in mind, but more what the King had in mind. He wanted for you scientists here in Lathonstal to try a couple of things out. He's beginning to be bored with the current state of events. He may have err... What was it called again?

* I believe they called it 'computer' or something. Silly name, if you ask me. The inventor -weird guy, calls himself "Jong"- claims it'll revolutionize the way we do things. Says we'll all have one in our bedrooms in thirty years... Says you can play games on it, simulate a human town, as long as you can find some guy crazy enough to punch all the buttons. But we're drifting. The experiments. He firstly wants to know if you could transform a megabeast, like a dragon or so, into a more mundane creature. A cat, for example. This in order to get it pregnant and then to turn it back into the dragon it was, hoping she'll still be pregnant.

Gentlemen, we are men of science. We did not foresee the need of magic. There is no Companion among us. We also do not have the right equipment with us. We packed lightly, in order to survive the long trek to this place. We just have some food and booze. That is all. Dīshmab here will supply us with the needed stone. We have also sent out a peace treaty to all intelligent life, asking not to attack us. We have explained our benevolent means, and they all have agreed. If we were to capture a dragon, the chances are high they will see it as an act of violence. I also highly doubt that any dragon would allow itself to be transformed into a cat, just to see if it could get pregnant and stay pregnant after the morphing back. I would certainly not like that, would you?

-I guess you're right, Mr. Atīstrīthol. We'll tell the King you've delayed that project for now. The next issue is a demand from the masses. They wish to know if some sort of automatic vertical dwarf transporter could be constructed. We ourselves were thinking of some kind of platform or box, with a rope tied to it. Then some peasants could pull it up.

No, I don't think that'll work. The logistics would be a nightmare! My guess is that we should teach every dwarf how to swim, and then use pressurized water in order to propel him up. It'll be a lot easier than some weird box-and-rope-contraption. But I'll see what I can do!

*... You're the scientist. If you say it's easier, it's got to be true... Anyway, the next project could be a lifesaver for future outposts, but we think the erm... execution of the experiment may be a bit of a sensitive matter... It's about the longevity of dwarves in a fire.

Fire? What's that?

-You know, when you drop some magma on lignite. Those reddish, orangey things that come off of it...

Hmm. Now that you say it, something's coming to mind. I've never noticed that before... fire, you called it?

*Yes, our researchers in the Mountainhome have discovered that it's lethal. It's actually been responsible for a lot of deaths all over the world. Most of Dwarfkind doesn't believe in it, so we started wondering on passive measures that prevent dwarves from getting killed in the heat.

-And when the 'mysterious' deaths were being examined, the investigators discovered that a prime factor in those deaths was clothing. What we want you to do is to find out if that's true. We want to know if a naked dwarf dies any faster than a clothed dwarf. Now, before you protest about how important dwarven lives are, we will provide you with some test subjects. All of them will be criminals of the worst kind. We will send them over here, saying they have to work on the projects here and they'll be free. I must warn you that they are criminals of the worst kind. Each and every one of them has ignored a mandate from local dignitaries. Act with extreme caution.

Hmm... I'll see what I can do. But until those crooks get here, I'm not going to try that. I don't want any of my friends to get hurt, you know.

*We understand your concern, Mr. Atīstrīthol, and thank you for your readiness to sacrifice labourers for the good of Dwarfkind. Then I suggest we go on ahead to the next matter. The King is, as you know, very vain and always lurking about for new things to show off to the Kings of the other Dwarven empires. His newest fixation is something he's calling 'Eternal Fire'. There has been some private research, but for some reason or other, those researching have all died horribly. Their bodies and possessions were all charred, but the nearest magma was tiles away. Luckily, the engravings on which they have described their findings were not affected. Urist is now briefing your workers on the discovered materials.

Oh, yeah. What are your names? I forgot to ask... It's just that I always seem to forget these kind of things. I wonder why that is...

-Well, due to a strange coincidence, he's named Urist as well. And, oddly enough, so am I. But as Urist was saying, your workers are being briefed. Our next project is one to see what the exact distance is a dwarf needs to travel before he needs a drink, some food, a break sleep... Anything, really.

That's going to be rather hard to accomplish, I think. I mean, every dwarf's different. Some are tougher, stronger or more agile than others, Or a combination of those three. And some are more lazy than others, or. Or. Or... There are just too many variables we can't control. I'm sorry to say this, but I don't think we'll be able to do that experiment. Do you have any other projects for us, Urist?

*There's a last one we had in mind. It's one to see how long we can sustain our prisoners in cages. And how long they survive without care. We basically want you to lock up a couple of dwarves and see how long it takes for them to starve or dehydrate, in case of the neglected dwarves; see if they go mad and if so how long that takes. Again, all in the name of science. And only the most harsh and brutal criminals will be sent here.

Well, I'll see what I can do about it. I think the biggest challenge will be to cage them. Is that all? Because I see Stākud is looking a bit anxious.

-For the moment this is all. We'll come around every fall, to see your progress and if there are any more experiments the King wants done, we'll tell you. We hope you'll book some successes to improve the standard of life all over the world. So until fall, then. Goodbye and good luck.

Thank you. Goodbye, Urist... Urist... Urist... Now, Stākud, come in. Tell me what you want to tell me.

Stākud: Erm, Kidiri, Sir, I think you'd better come and have a look yourself. You know about those travellers who said that they've seen Giant Cave Spiders? And how we didn't believe them? Well, a troglodyte was scampering along when he suddenly got caught in a web. And that attracted the creature that made it, a cave spider. But the giant kind...

Kidiri: So I see. I suggest nobody wanders that way. But back to work! There's Science to do! I've got a whole load of experiments that need to be done.

----------

As you might have guessed, I'll also make it in a story-like thing. But the most important goal of the fort remains the science. And the computer has effectively been made. It's all Jong's work and I congratulate him on his work, even though I don't understand the least bit of it. Anyway, the first batch of experiments has arrived. It'll take some work to complete all of the preparations and such, but I hope on a decent migrant wave come Spring. I'll make some pump parts and mod a stone I won't be getting to the right specifications. I'll also try and get a cistern going.

can you get a megabeast children if you swap the pregnant race to one?
What exactly do you mean? Change them in the raws (adding the [CHILD]-tag)? Or change them in the raws AND with Dwarf Companion into a dog/cat/whatever and then back? Could you clarify, please?

Experiment name:
Water Elevator
Approved! I'll first try to get them going using purely water pressure. While I'm at it, I'll also try and find the optimal pressure that moves them.

Experiment name:
Flaming Dwarves
Approved, but delayed. I'll need immigrants before I can set them on fire.

Experiment name:
The Eternal Flame
Approved! This one will most likely be completed first (or at least the smallest part). I'll also see at what point the item starts receiving damage.

I am requesting an experiment regarding the optimum distance for a stockpile to be from the meeting area.
Disapproved. I'm afraid that there are too many uncontrollable variables to have reliable results. Sorry!

Experiment name:
Survival in cages
Approved! But delayed. The same problem as with the Flaming Dwarves. I'll need immigrants in order to try this out. I'll start on digging the sustaining pod. Which will just be a room where the cages can be built and sealed off. It'll be in the soil so I can just put the cages in there, along with a dwarf or two who will sustain the test subjects with plump helmets and wine. It'll be rather small scale, something like six dwarves or so, three without food and three with food.

Your fortress name should be "Mythbust"
It should, shouldn't it?
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Veni, Vidi, Pompeii.
Soylent Green is kittens!
Sometimes, when my Dorfs are exceptionally stupid again, I wonder what exactly the [INTELLIGENT]-tag does.

NW_Kohaku

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 02:21:52 pm »

Dwarf LBGT Rights:

OK, not really, but it's just something I've been wondering about the coding for DF, how marriage affects pregnancies, especially when you use memory hacking programs like Dwarf Companion.

Basically, if you take a married pair of dwarves, where the wife is pregnant, and mess with the gender of the dwarves, how does this affect pregnancies?  If you transgender a pregnant female, does the now-male dwarf still have a baby?  If you make the father into a female, will the now-sorta-lesbian couple continue to have children, just because they are married?

I was going to do this experiment myself, but haven't gotten around to doing it.  If someone wants to go all SCIENCE for us, then I'd like to see this one done, too.
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HmH

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 03:08:36 pm »

Quote
who will sustain the test subjects with plump helmets and wine
Caged dwarves don't drink booze. All they can have is water in buckets, so it's better to get a well(with bucket stockpile) there, too.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 03:28:12 pm by HmH »
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Ottofar

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Re: For Science!
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 04:29:00 pm »

If you cave-in stuff to the bottom-most z-level, is a chasm created?
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