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[Max White]

Hi all!
So I found out that the thing killing everything wasn't angry, violent water, but the carp IN the water. Makes sense (not even the tiniest little bit, not at all, but meh), and I figure I can use this to my advantage! I plan to build a moat around my fortress and fill it with tame carp, therefor allowing my dwarves to walk through unharmed and anything else (Those dark thieves included!) to be shred to bits. Seems like the perfect defense to me!

I have practiced with cage traps before and have caught animals, and even a few goblins (Just had an awesome idea, what if I try to melt down a metal cage with a goblin in it? I should try that!) but for some reason it is I am unable to catch carp. Are they catchable, and if so how?

And furthermore, if they are catchable, are they tamable? I've noticed some things can't be tamed, so it would be handy information before I release a bunch of dwarf eating fish into my entrance.

And finally, do they breed? I heard that some animals don't, but if they did it would mean I don't need to worry about them being killed because there numbers would replace themselves and I could even butcher some for meat!

An elf head on a pike for anybody that can help me out!

[Retro]

I believe they can be caged, but for them to not die the cages have to be in water and they have to still be accessible to dwarves to be collected. Making the issue rather complicated. I think they're tameable, though; someone tried making Carp Fortress a little while ago (I think 100killer9) though I don't yet know how it went.

[Max White]

Well right now I have been testing water levels using flood gates, carp and fish to figure out how deep to make the moat. I found that at 4/7 both carp and dwarves can get through, and as a side product of my experiment I have a few carp in a 'holding tank' type set up, so maybe I could trap the next room, then release them in there, and as soon as they are caged I pump drain the room, have dwarves run in to collect then tame, and release while the fish are holding there breath. Or do they die instantly when they come out of water?

And in order to do it quick enough, what level animal tamer would I need, as dabbling can take a while.

[Nirreln]

Looking at the raws carp lack the [PET] tag and I think that makes them untamable. Plus the whole "drowning" on land thing would make them hard to tame.

[Max White]

So basically even If I did forge a -IRON SCUBA SUIT- I wouldn't be able to tame them?

Well that's a let down! Maybe there is another deadly aquatic animal that can be tamed. I have yet to embark on a beach (Fear of aquifers you see) so maybe I can find other fish in open water.

I want aquatic because it makes it so much easier to keep them in one place and still give them enough freedom to chase intruders.

[Retro]

Looking at the raws carp lack the [PET] tag and I think that makes them untamable. Plus the whole "drowning" on land thing would make them hard to tame.

As taming can be done to creatures in cages without releasing or moving them (the trainer goes to them instead), keeping them in reasonable water levels seems the most appropriate solution once the [PET] tag has been added. From there you could release them and open a bridge in the floor into a sealed 7/7 water room so that your 3/7 or 4/7 watery room doesn't drain as well, then seal the bridge once the carp's in and open a floodgate to allow them access through the watery airlock and into the main moat system. Hell, you could give them [trAINABLE] and make them into war carp if you like. The idea of a fort with waterways beside/under the walkways and a 'joined' area with 3/7 water where they can come together is incredibly interesting to me.

...Now I want to try this >_>

[Max White]

Hmm, so you mean that by modding the game files I could have ALMIGHTY CARP OF WAR!!!!

Filling a level with water that is 4 deep isn't so hard, you count the number of tiles on the floor (having rectangular rooms helps to calculate quickly) then dived that number by 4, next build a room above it with that many square exactly, and fill it up (Easily done!) , then close off the higher room and drop all the water into the lower room, TA DA! Water fit for a carp or a dwarf. You could in theory have your entire battle field an underground marsh.

The interesting bit would be having fish go up and down levels, because water tries to level out, the bottom half of your fortress would get flooded and the top would be dry, HOWEVER I wonder it it is possible to have only the top level at 4/7 and under that build a tunnel system that follows all paths and flood that with water, keeping your main paths fully dry, that way the carp would follow your dwarfs around in pipes.

[Max White]

So wait, I have been playing this game for two weeks, only once managed to get a population over 50 (And was rewarded with a crazy ass noble who takes up the metal forge when I want my good workers in it) and already have spawned a mega project.

THIS GAME IS AWESOME!

[Retro]

The interesting bit would be having fish go up and down levels, because water tries to level out, the bottom half of your fortress would get flooded and the top would be dry, HOWEVER I wonder it it is possible to have only the top level at 4/7 and under that build a tunnel system that follows all paths and flood that with water, keeping your main paths fully dry, that way the carp would follow your dwarfs around in pipes.

That's exactly what I meant! It'd work just great, I think, since creatures in water can see/interact with creatures on the land just beside.

So wait, I have been playing this game for two weeks, only once managed to get a population over 50 (And was rewarded with a crazy ass noble who takes up the metal forge when I want my good workers in it) and already have spawned a mega project.

THIS GAME IS AWESOME!

It is indeed awesome. And the dungeon master is most people's favoured noble, cherish him (you can use the 'P' orders when using 'q' to look at a workshop to define who can use them, also)

[Max White]

You will have to tell me how your fortress end up, as I don't think I have the required skills to build such a thing. I'm still trying to get fish catching down packed!

I suppose the easy way would be to make dwarfs amphibious, and flood the entire thing, and have your fish swim in the main halls.

Train at the screw pumps? FORGET THAT! I got legendary swimmers!

[Fearless Son]

The interesting bit would be having fish go up and down levels, because water tries to level out, the bottom half of your fortress would get flooded and the top would be dry, HOWEVER I wonder it it is possible to have only the top level at 4/7 and under that build a tunnel system that follows all paths and flood that with water, keeping your main paths fully dry, that way the carp would follow your dwarfs around in pipes.

This is theoretically possible, using a system of levers, pumps, and floodgates to create a water-lock that will allow water-born creatures to pass between different levels without the water from the higher level spilling down into the lower.  However, this would require very careful measurement and timing, and I have no idea how you would get the fish to move into and out of the lock when you want them to. 

Now, if Toady every introduced an ability for fish to jump out of the water and back in, we could create a system of fish ladders to allow them to change levels.  However, the though of carp jumping out of rivers to gnaw off dwarven faces to to horrible to seriously contemplate.

[Max White]

Zombie Carp scare me too. 

[Fearless Son]

Yeah, those ones can walk on land.  :p

Hopefully this is fixed at some point, but until then, watch out on the seaside for land-walking zombie whales.

[Max White]

Perhaps if I embark next to an ocean that is half good, half evil I will find a zombie merperson.

I read a thread about trying to catch them because there so valuable, and I figure it would be easier if they came on land.

[Fearless Son]

Incidentally, for catching fish, I am not sure but I think that you need to use a cage made from glass (an aquarium) in the cage trap in order to have them survive their trip across dry land.  Though I could be wrong about this, having never tried it myself.  Not much worth catching in the places I usually embark. 

Except that giant eagle.  Wish I knew of a way to nab and domesticate that one.  Whoo boy.